Jared | His Side

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. We're the Nelsons. I'm Lanette. And in today's episode, my husband Shaun will be interviewing Jared. And Jared is a birth father. We're really excited to share a birth father's perspective and experiences here on the podcast today. Jared will be talking about his side of placing his son for adoption. And next week we'll have something really fun where we get to hear from Jared's wife Shayla, who is the birth mom of their child that they placed.

0:31They ended up getting married a little while later and they have two sons that they're parenting. So they're the parents of three boys. They're really wonderful. They're so, so sweet. And one of my favorite things as I listened to him was just how tender this all was. He's so open about these raw and hard emotions. And it's just a really beautiful episode to hear and feel a bit of what he's sharing and what he's experienced. So we'll jump to the interview right now and then we'll recap at the end.

1:04All right. Well, we are now on the podcast with Jared. Jared, thanks so much for being willing to meet with us. Yeah. Let's go ahead and just have you introduce yourself a little bit so we get to know who you are. So my name is Jared. Currently I am 29 years young. I've got I'm married with two kids. I enjoy being outdoors. I enjoy motocross. I'm in a band. I write music. I actually work in a residential treatment center for boys right now.

1:40And my wife is just started working in the medical industry. And we have a dog, two fish in the gecko. Life is good. It's crazy. I was born and raised here in Utah. And this is where I grew up. And this is where I live currently. I love going on walks, hikes with motocross. You know, my kids have gotten into it early. And so, you know, bikes are a big deal.

2:11My my three year old has an electric motorcycle that he rides all over the place. My two year old is just about to get one as well. And we love doing that together. We're planning on doing that this weekend, going out and riding around. My wife rides a motorcycle. My kids ride bikes. I ride a bike. My my people I invite ride bikes. Love being out in the in nature on two wheels for sure. Yeah, that's that's that's pretty much the sum up of who I am and then what I do.

2:41Yeah, that was part of my childhood to growing up when I was 12. I got an accident and ruptured my spleen. And before I got out of the hospital, my parents had sold my bike. So I put an abrupt abrupt end to that hobby. But I too enjoyed that a lot when I was younger. That's really fun. Yeah, accidents happen. I'm not looking forward to my kids getting hurt. But it's sadly it might be inevitable. Yep. It happens in all things right. So but that's true. They're going to hurt themselves playing soccer. They're going to hurt themselves on a dirt bike either way. Right.

3:18Yep. And that's a joyful part of parenthood. Yeah. Well, we'd love to hear your story. We know that your birth father would love to hear your perspective. So if you want to share with us kind of the story of how adoption became part of your experience and help us understand what that was like. So basically, when I was 18, my girlfriend at the time was 16. And that is long story short, I'll just spill the beans and now that was Shayla and she's actually now my wife.

3:54So that was 10 years ago, 10 between 10 11 years ago, we got pregnant, she we found out with it, she was pregnant. And at the time it was kind of, you know, we weren't really sure what to do. We didn't we didn't really have any experience with adoption. It wasn't like we were studying it before we found out we were pregnant or anything like that. But it was something that, you know, as the pregnancy, you know, after the first couple months of the of the shock, like, oh my gosh, like, what are we going to do? You know, we kind of were like, hey, what are we going to do now with this situation and and with this with this baby.

4:32And adoption became part of the conversation a few months in, and we started seeing family services. They were, you know, local and they were doing that and we knew about them and Shayla's mom actually helped set us up with an appointment to initially start seeing an awesome lady there start seeing Margaret there. It was low pressure was it was awesome. She just talked to us and kind of explained to us, you know, the types of adoption what adoption was about what they do like how it works, how it works.

5:05When you place the baby how it works from there on out, things like that. And long story short, we, we kind of ended up. We ended up deciding we want to do adoption. And we decided that it was going to be like a modified closed adoption. Basically what that meant was we were going to have visitations and we wanted it to be open so that we could visit the baby and his new family for the first year. And then from there on out it was going to be closed, which essentially meant quickly just updates with photos stories, things like that but not any visitation.

5:43And I'm skipping I'm skipping a little bit of the details with it. I mean there was it was chaotic you know it was, I was an 18 year old kid that had a lot of my own self interest I was self centered I was I was, I was a teenage boy, you know, and she got definitely got stuck with the brunt of the struggle. But, it all worked out pretty well. In the end, so grateful for that.

6:13But, long story short, skipping ahead a little bit at that year mark. The family we chose the place with. Excuse me, sorry. Thought I was over this 10 years later. They wanted to keep us in their lives. So, we've been able to see him and visit him and be a part of his life for the last 10 years and.

6:43And that's been amazing. And I can't say enough about how grateful I am for it. There's so many things we could talk about, but I think, I think one thing that you just said a minute ago like I thought 10 years later I was over this, I don't think at any point, any of us in the adoption triad are quote unquote over it right. It's, yeah, with us always. And, and it's, it's part of our experience it makes us who we are, even a long time after those emotions can come surging back and it's, it can be heavy and hard so thank you for being vulnerable and willing to share.

7:27I blame that whole experience because I was stoned cold before it. I never shed a tear before that. But ever since then I can I can barely get through a Disney movie with my kids now getting choked up and pathetic. But, you know, it is what it is I, it's annoying because I have a hard time talking through tears. But, it is what it is like you said you never get over it truly. Yeah. And that's okay. Is it okay if I asked some fault like follow up questions about how you felt during things and, and how that experience was.

8:02So, yeah, I know that you mentioned this but maybe can you walk us through like what it felt like or what the experience was like when you guys found out that you were pregnant. It was shocking to say the least, and we were, we were young and we're both the oldest in our family so ironically, my mom was pregnant, she was pregnant with my youngest brother, her mom was six five six months pregnant with her youngest sister. So, my mom, my mother in law, and my girlfriend now wife.

8:37We're all pregnant at the same time. So it was a, it was crazy and again like like I mentioned before like, I was, you know, at the time I was, I was an 18 year old boy I was definitely more worried about my issues in my life than I, than the reality of the situation at hand I would say, but it was definitely a, it was definitely a crazy time. And a lot of, you know, a lot of emotion, that's for sure. I stuck with her.

9:14And I felt like I needed to. I felt like I should I felt like you know it's, I mean it's, it's not, it's not fair that you know she gets stuck with, you know, with reality for nine months while I, you know, in reality I could go off and do whatever I wanted, where she you know she couldn't she had to switch schools. She had to deal with repercussions from, you know, her parents you know being upset with what happened of course, I had to deal with my parents being upset with what happened and there was a lot of a lot of emotional a lot of turmoil in the in the first couple

9:48months but you know when the dust settled. Everybody stepped up and was like how do we make this situation better. You know, hence, her mom, you know scheduling us adoption appointments, you know, and my, my mom being a great support system for me and, and ultimately after the first, I'd probably say three or four months of the pregnancy it just really turned into what's going to be best for this baby. So, that's great. I don't know if that answered your question. Yeah, yeah and actually answered a couple others that I had to so initially it sounds like families were pretty upset.

10:23Yeah, yeah, I can imagine them being upset. Also, probably emotions running high with both of your mom's being pregnant to that probably made it even more unique and challenging situation. I mean you started kind of talking about it that way but then it after the dust settled as you said, then everybody stepped up and there was that support, you mentioned her mom helping with setting up adoption appointments what other things did parents do. That helped you feel their support. You know, for, for me, my mom was always there to talk to things were harder, you know when I felt like I didn't know what to do or who to talk to about what I felt.

11:07You know she was always there for me to talk to she's always been very level headed and logical. You know I could I felt like during that time I could go to her with anything and any feelings that any thoughts that I had, which was very nice. And then, you know, her parents you know obviously her her mom, helping us with the adoption thing you know, you know, giving her expertise and knowledge and in knowing she's actually a surrogate mother.

11:38And so she had a little bit of experience in so much adoption I guess it's you know similar, so you know but she she understood to a point. The process in general. Yeah, you know it's not like either of our families had dealt with adoption had adopted anybody or placed anybody for adoption so it was definitely very helpful for her to be like hey this is a good place to go this is a, these are good

12:09people to talk to. This is kind of how it works. And, you know, her helping Shayla deal with the know what to expect emotion wise. Yeah, I know with surrogacy or gestational caring like, even though from the beginning right the intent was that this baby is going to their, their family. But there is there is a level of loss that's felt so to some extent I bet her mom could help her through some of those feelings and emotions, which is probably really helpful.

12:43Yeah, that's, that's awesome that you guys had that support. Tell us, tell us a little bit about the process of finding the adoptive parents. What did that look like for you did you do that together. Yeah, sure, share a little bit with us about that. That's the chaotic, the chaotic part that I skipped earlier, we started doing visits, family services together. And, you know, there was a lot of clashing a lot of arguing with with that, when it came to that because I know what I wanted versus what she wanted were two different things.

13:17And I imagine that's probably, you know, similar case with a lot of individuals, and something that something our poor caseworker had to deal with was a birth dad that was not, you know, she was just a just dealing with the birth mom and birth dad and have any say in it but no I was like the, I was like the overly involved birth dad and the one that was like, no, they, they got to be perfect with careers and blah blah blah blah they got to have money they got to have stability they got to have whatever she was looking for

13:48that, that feeling that just that gut feeling that those people that just felt right. So we probably if we drop for market crazy I'm sure I mean we even always tell it how it was, they, we, you know, we started looking at couples they gave us access to the site where we started looking at couples and their profiles that they had set up. And we're reading through them and we both, you know, picked some people that we thought were good and we narrowed it down to a couple that we actually met.

14:18And ultimately what have we actually picked one couple and decide we were going to place with them and I was all for it. I was all in I was like great perfect you know they say they're awesome. But she doesn't have a good feeling about it. And, you know, we, we backed out of, of that placement, which I imagine was unbelievably hard for that couple. And to put this into perspective, this was all like, she was doing a matter of a week or two.

14:53Not even I think she was doing a week, because at that point we were so close to the delivery date that the next time we met with Margaret after we decided to back out was the conversation, at least for mine was literally like, like at this point. Anyone's better than no one. She was like, what do you suggest. She was like I got this couple, she's like they're brand new, I don't know what to think about him yet. But I got a good feeling about it. Here's our profile.

15:24So we're like let's do it let's meet them. We met with them and they were, they were very enthusiastic obviously and Shayla had a great feeling about them shows that she loved them and I was like great. But again, like anybody's better than nobody at this point, and they do seem really awesome. And that was my mentality at the time, you know, I'll be honest. So, again, Shayla had a great feeling about them so we we picked them and it was almost the same week, met them on a Tuesday, went to dinner on Wednesday, told them that we were going to place with

15:55them had the baby, or we told them we were going to place them on Thursday I'm sorry met them on Tuesday, told them we were going to place them on Thursday, the baby was born Saturday. And then we told them Sunday that he was here. So it was like, just this is just like, yeah, it's fast. And they, they had given us five names they wanted us to have some saying the name so we just sent them a picture and said we think he looks like it.

16:30Like, we think he looks like a Carson that was one of the names that they have given us so. And that's how we told them that he was here and. And that's kind of how the choosing of the family went. So kind of a emotional whirlwind in the beginning. So maybe one follow up question to that so you said that she just didn't feel like that first couple was right. Can you maybe expand just a little bit on that. I mean, I know ultimately, you have to be super solid with the decision that you're making right and you have to feel really really good about it.

17:07Anything around that that you want to share. And ultimately I think the I think the biggest reason that we told them we were going to place them was because I was pushing for it so hard. They were, you know, they were a couple that I that met all the criteria that I wanted. And I pushed for I pushed for really hard I push a lot for really hard and I didn't, I decided to force her into making the decision but I did push for it very hard and she wanted to, you know, she, she went along with it.

17:44And it just wasn't till after the fact that she, you know, felt first she had her doubts beforehand. But it wasn't till after the fact that she really really felt like she needed to, you know, act on her doubts and and make make the hard decision, and she did make it on her own you know she she told them and it's a hard thing to say. It's hard thing to tell somebody especially after you, you know you meet them and you, you know, commit to giving them something that they wanted for who knows how long and can't have on their own it's it's definitely, it's definitely tough for them

18:26tough for us and. But, you know, ultimately she she felt like she needed to. She needed to do what she felt like was right. And it wasn't that there was anything wrong with those people or anything like that it was just, it was just kind of a gut feeling for her. And for me it was, you know, I was, I take the blame mostly because I was just kind of blind to her objections and her opinion on the couple prior.

19:03And so I pushed really hard for it and I kind of ignored what she said about them and so she said okay. And then, you know, it wasn't it wasn't till after the fact that you know we talked about it more and I opened up to what she was saying and I listened to what she was saying. And I realized that, you know, I needed to and he needed, we both needed to feel good about this decision not just one of us. I think you give give yourselves grace. It's been a decade and you were 16 and 18 right.

19:34Trying to trying to make the best decisions and working together. I imagine that that was hard and probably looking back you could do things differently if you could go back but that was your experience right. So, you know, you're in time and change anything in that process from the beginning like when you found out you're pregnant till after her to placement. Anything else that you would have wished would have happened differently. And one thing I kind of mentioned before was, like, I wish that I had been less self absorbed and myself, and you know maybe that's asking a lot of an 18 year old boy I don't, I don't remember how I felt my thought process as an 18 year old boy necessarily

20:18and I look back on it as you know 10 11 years later. Well maybe that's the best way to put I think the better way to put it is I wasn't putting myself in her shoes enough. If I could change one thing about those nine months. That's what I would be doing I'd be putting myself in her shoes.

20:51More often because she definitely got the worst end of it. You know she had to deal with her mom that was pregnant she had to deal with herself that was pregnant and she had to deal with me who also had a pregnant mother and then I had all these strong opinions and I was, you know, and we'd only been dating for month. And yeah I was, you know I was working I was working out I had all these other admissions and goals and I was just like this is, you know, this is a looking back on it now I'm like that was a serious situation and I could have really stepped up and I could

21:22have been I could have put myself in her shoes more and I could have been more supportive than I was. I could have done more to kind of be a little bit more of a relief in her life versus an extra stress. And I feel like something I did was add, add more stress to her plate versus taking it away. It's probably asking a lot of an 18 year old boy like it's hard to, it's hard to be like hey all you 1617 year old boys out there that get your girlfriend and like

21:54step up be a man be supportive be like the perfect be the perfect support person in her life like that's probably a tough thing to do for a lot of them so but if I could change one thing that's what I would do. Well, and like you said in the beginning, hate answering questions or thinking about questions like this because we can't change the past, but for the 17 year old or 18 year old boy who's listening to this who's in the same situation that you were 10 years ago.

22:24That's some great advice and some great some great thoughts for that person to consider. So, thank you for sharing that. Let's talk a little bit about your relationship with Carson. With Carson's parents, and why, maybe, maybe why at first you wanted to do that year of kind of open and then close the door what was maybe the thinking behind that. Let's start there. The thinking behind that.

22:56The first time I took part in the election anyways was was just, we felt like that would be best for the child to develop that relationship with his parents. We felt like that was that would be best for his adoptive parents to develop that relationship with their child without having to juggle other people in their lives. Down, you know, down the road that that idea but that was the initial thought, I would say. Let's talk a little bit about that change. How did that happen, and how did that relationship morph and change over time.

23:35It was just kind of a mutual thing like we were doing the visits and we were visiting we were hanging out we were having a good time and we had just, we just had such good conversations and so much so much fun and so much bonding when we would get together and we had a lot in common, Katie's family that her brothers raced motocross we always have things to talk about I mean I even went to. I even raced with her brother and road tracks with her brother and we went and watched her brother race and, and we visited

24:06her parents and you know, her, her siblings and, and it just kind of became less of like, for lack of a better term of business relationship and more of a friendship. And the same thing with Devin and his side of family they've they've always been. They've always accepted us, both of us with open arms and you know Devin loves loves biking and mountain biking and being outdoors and camping like all the things that we love to do to

24:40the both of them do and we've just had so much in common we've both had had so much to talk about every time we get together it's just been. It's just been an added bonus that we were able to give them their first child. And we've always been able to openly talk about that too. That's something that's been very nice and convenient it wasn't like we show up and it wasn't like the routine questions like, Oh, how's Carson doing getting enough to eat, is he sleeping at night, you know, just like the things like that it's always just been.

25:13It's always just been able to be very open and have very very good communication when it comes to them and Devin and Katie have both been very very receptive and open when it comes to talking about like, Oh, Carson does this like, which one of you which one of you was the most stubborn, because he is so stubborn and we're like, Oh my goodness like we're both so stubborn so good luck with that. You know, it's we've, they, they haven't been. They've never tried to avoid talking about those facts you know they've always been like hey like Carson does this this this and this and this and that reminds me so much of you and that reminds me so much of Shayla and like or which one of you does this

25:54remind you the most of. And so that's been very very helpful and. It's just turned our relationship, again from what I feel like maybe could be like a business type relationship where it's like oh we're doing this visit because we have to. Yeah, into more of a friendship, where it's like we get together because we want to, because we enjoy your company. We enjoy having you around. We're good friends with all of them. They all know us they all love it when we show up and we play and have a good time and yeah, it's a lot of fun.

26:24I love it and like kind of summarizing I think what you said it kind of go kind of started as like this obligatory relationship that I mean we we all want to have that relationship because of our child that we share. And over time, it morphs and changes to family and kind of even the excitement of getting together and looking forward to being with each other, whereas in the beginning that's maybe a little bit kind of uneasy and we're not sure what it will look like.

26:55Yeah, yeah 100%. So, even today so 10 years later, what it sounds like your relationship still sounds great. What are some of the things that they do and you do to keep that relationship strong. Yeah, it's awesome. I think we've been. We, we, we see them. Sometimes it's anywhere between every type two and four months I'd say over the past 10 years has probably been consistently like I mean they they reach out to us. We reach out to them, and no one has to make the first move.

27:30We can text them anytime we want and be like we miss you we love to get together soon and I'm a we've met it, we've met at parks we've met at junk houses we've met at other families, places they they were down here for a barbecue this summer we we've met them at their house on time we ride bikes we play baseball with each other we, you know we do anything and everything that family would do together. That's that's really what's kept it alive is just, you know, the is just that that relationship

28:00that we have. We go out to it we got to eat together we got to get dessert together we we get together religiously every, every few months, and it's honestly the best part of the whole thing. It literally is just a friendship like like, like, like me and Devin talk about, I mean he'll text me about cars or like a dirt bikes or whatever and I mean the Shailen Katie have gone shopping together we're going to gotten pedicures together and stuff completely outside of kids outside of Carson outside of all that it's it's so much more than that. And didn't have to be that way but they, you know, they helped make it that way.

28:46So you two were teenagers, when you got pregnant the first time you placed your, your son, you end up getting married you have two more children, how has placing him affected you or both of you as parents, like, how does, what did you learn from that or how is it shaped what kind of parent you are. That's a good question I think the biggest way it affected us we knew we wanted to have kids right away as soon as we did get married.

29:16Just because I feel like we kind of gone through that experience and we knew what it was like we want we were both pretty hungry for that again, which, looking back on it probably could have enjoyed marriage for a couple years. Because we wouldn't change anything. But as parents I mean it's, it's probably changed the how we view being parents, a lot differently than, than anyone would think including ourselves. It's probably changed the way that we try to parent

29:55more so because of Devin and Katie, and the parents they are, you know, and it's, which is, is funny you know it's it's not because of what we went through that we're like, oh we want to be these type of people and these type of parents know it's because of the people that we placed with that we want to be, we want to be more like them. You know they've been awesome, awesome parents. It's like, like, wow, how are we supposed to live up with that to live up to that how are we supposed to give our kids, you know, be the be as good of parents to our, our two kids that we have right now as they have to our first, you know it's it's, it's some big shoes to fill.

30:38But I would say that's probably been the biggest impact is just striving to be more like them. That's, that's sweet. On our podcast we've had a lot of conversations with many birth mothers and some have talked about some of the challenges that they've felt, you know, going through the going through the whole situation and post adoption, we hear a lot more from that side of the equation. But what would you share what are some of the challenges of being a birth father.

31:12I think it's kind of a tough question to ask because are a tough question to answer just because as I've gotten older I feel like, you know, I've matured I've grown up and I've recognized that I did not have the worst of that situation, you know she had it worse than me and so I kind of pushed out my own struggles and that way but you know I know what I did I know what I know what I did after the fact to kind of cope with that because it was it you know was traumatic for me it was hard to deal with.

31:42It was a lot of emotion. The way that I process things is by thinking about them on my own. Before I talk about them. Pretty shortly after the whole situation I mean obviously I still visited and everything visited them but you know I moved a couple hours away and I, I didn't date I didn't have any friends I just kept to myself and just kind of help myself process gave myself time to heal from the whole situation and focused on myself and my heart really is and what I wanted to do and I did that for about a year and a half lived in a place that I

32:24lived in. Actually, literally I lived in a windowless basement bedroom with no Wi Fi. For about a for about a year, year and a half. Before I came out of hiding and started socializing again. For me that was the best thing that I could do for myself because that's that's how I cope with things that's how I process things is like, I get to a place where I can be alone with my thoughts. I process and then, and then I come out and I can usually talk about it or, you know, deal with it in a more social way. That's what I did to heal from because it was a lot. And it was very hard the hardest thing I've ever done my life, hands down.

33:08Over many years adoption has been changing we've gone from some for away from some really unethical practices to enclosed adoptions to more open adoptions and more focus on ethics and relationships between everybody. Well, though we've made some progress there's still room to grow. What would you say are some of the biggest challenges that the adoption community still faces today. I think that, you know, and everybody's going to do it their own way, and to each their own, you know, every situation is different every doctor situation is different but, you know, raising the raising the child with, you know, just accepting the facts,

33:52accepting the fact that he, he or she is adopted that he or she was, you know was, you know, someone else carried them in their tummy and somebody else, you know is responsible for bringing them into this world to get them to where they need to be. I think raising them with that knowledge is important to the child. I think it's important for them down the road in their lives and I think it will help them a lot with accepting that and not, you know, dwelling on it too much and not letting it impact their lives negatively.

34:34And that's my opinion, think that's that's typically for their own reasons versus in the child's best interest. That makes sense. Yeah, I feel like those, I feel like those situations are like the only reason you'd want it that restricted and that closed office for your own interest versus the child, because regardless of how, how crappy their parents are that kids still going to want to know them.

35:04They're still going to be curious about they're still gonna have questions. So it's unfair to cut them out that way. And I deal with a lot of a lot of those, a lot of the repercussions of that in my job. It's a little bit emotional for me because about 50% of our boys are adopted. Are such a hard time talking through tears I'm sorry.

35:34You're good. But a lot of that stems from those kind of situations, you know, where they're adoptive parents don't want to talk about their birth parents in their situations beforehand, kid doesn't understand. I think what you're highlighting for me is like, no matter what emotions or feelings adoptive parents or birth parents are going through like at the end of the day, it's about our kids. Yeah, we have to make sure that we're providing the relationships they need the information that they need everything really that they need to be happy and healthy and and okay with where they come from.

36:13And even when they're not okay with that we're all still there for them, and that we love them and they know that I think that's really, really important thing to highlight. And that's what I'm, that's what I'm trying to get at. You're awesome. So, you mentioned before placement that you had met with your counselor Margaret, what type of counseling, or what type of post placement support, did you have, or did you take advantage of any counseling or anything afterward.

36:48I didn't do any counseling, she, she definitely called texted an email a few a handful of times, you know, reaching out just to see if any, you know, if I needed anything, how things were going. I. Yeah, I just never. I don't even know if I ever responded. Yeah. I just, again I the way I kind of process things was a little different than some, you know, I felt like, you know, I feel like when I process things it's just I do better when I do it alone and I think about things I work through them in my head and then

37:30I just kind of put it out of my shell. Well, is there anything else that you would want our listeners to know or understand from your perspective as a birth father as we wrap up any maybe parting words that you'd share. Like, let's be realistic as the guy. You're not pregnant. You're not getting fatter, dealing with hormones, dealing with, you know, anything like that like you, you've got way more freedom than she does, you know any guy that just ups and leaves and bales out on that is just just a frightened human, you know,

38:08and. I mean, I would, you know, if I was going to say anything to any guys out there in that kind of situation, it would be like, you know, stick it out. Stick it out like that's, that's, that's your blood that's your kid that's, that's your responsibility that's that's your bed that you made and you need to lie in it and and you suck it up and deal with it and you definitely have the easier part. In that, in my opinion.

38:41I, yeah, I think there's a lot of guys that are afraid of. I think that's why I say that those guys that just, they're just bail and leave and don't want anything to do with the situation or just just scared gutless individuals they don't they're they're too frightened of being stepping up and being a dad or whatever it may be but it's like can't look at it like that you don't have doesn't mean you have to marry the girl doesn't have to mean it doesn't mean you have to be involved as much as you're you think you might have to be, but you can still be part of that kid's life and the kids still going to be curious about you.

39:15At some point in his life, it is rewarding to see that and to be part of their lives. I know several people that you know that happened to they had unplanned pregnancies and unplanned births. And they chose to run, it shows to not be involved for years, sometimes 12310 18 years. And every single one of them regret it. Every single one of them, every single one of them wish they hadn't done that.

39:47Now it's not to say that that, you know that scared person can't change, you know, everybody gets scared it's not just it's not just birth father birth mothers do to there's some birth mothers they give birth leave the hospital and never see you never hear from again. You know everybody does something similar but I've seen some of them that have some of them have come back and become more involved in their lives in their child lives. You know a couple years in, and it's, and they absolutely love it, and they're glad that they did, they're glad they're glad that they, they sucked it up and they had that hard conversation with baby mama or baby daddy, or whatever,

40:29and became part of their lives again so that they could introduce them to their other kids, or their cousins their relatives their parents whatever it may be. And then I've met people that haven't, they've never been in contact with them. And, like I said, those are the people that regret it was the people that are, those are the people that are like, oh man, I wish I could get ahold of them I would but I'm just too scared.

40:59And that's, you can live your life in fear you can just suck it up on the fact that it happened and develop those relationships because those relationships with people that are your family and that you love are the most important things in life. I think that's an awesome note to end on. Thank you so much for being willing to be on the podcast and share your perspective we really appreciate you.

41:31Yeah, absolutely. I, I'd like to be I'd like to talk about it more and and be more. I mean, I'll be a bigger part of it and everything but so it's just so hard to just so uncomfortable I hate crying and I can't talk through tears and it's hard to do it and I can't seem to hold them back or cope with it so that's why I haven't done it very much. Well, we appreciate you a lot. And even through the tears we understood what you said but I think more importantly we understand how you feel to some degree. And that's really valuable for us to understand so thank you so much.

42:10Absolutely. I appreciate you guys reaching out. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project. Wow, huh, I loved this episode. I really really liked doing that interview. Yeah, I was sad that I didn't get to sit in on the interview with you but it might have been better, the way that it was keeping it more intimate it was just such a beautiful episode to listen to for me.

42:46And honestly I'm excited because I still haven't listened to the conversation that you've had with Sheila. Yeah, so I and it wasn't even intentional we just schedule wise, Shaun interviewed Jared and I interviewed Sheila, and we planned on having these come out the same week, but it just didn't work out life happens, which, you know, I'm sure you guys can forgive us right. But we're really excited to share that said, next week, I loved hearing from Jared what were some of your favorite parts. Yeah, I mean, even right there toward the end he shared a lot of thoughts that I just really liked as an adoptive father thinking about this situation where I think we're in a pretty unique situation where we have relationships or contact with, to some degree, all of our

43:31children's birth fathers, in addition to their birth mothers, but I really liked what he said that birth fathers need to be involved, and the degree to which that happens you know it's going to look different for everyone but ultimately at the end of the day, it's for our kids someday, they're going to have questions they're going to want to know. And if we can form that relationship in some way, right, it doesn't have to look the same for everybody but some type of connection so that when those questions do come, or if you know maybe all along

44:04they've been part of a relationship, it's just going to benefit the kids, and I really really like how he, he shared that. Yeah, I like the emphasis on these relationships might be hard sometimes, but we're doing it for our children right, and you can connect in meaningful ways. And as adoptive parents we need to be willing to be flexible and to keep that door open to help our children have those connections because they're going to want them. But on this, on the same note, I think the way that he described the relationship that he and Shayla have with their sons, adoptive parents is awesome right like love that it's not their relationship isn't always just based on the fact that they share a kid

44:50right but they have a lot of interests, and they've built great relationships around those interests, and so much that it's not just about getting together, so that they can see the kids but so that they can hang out with each other because they're friends and they, they have similar interests and I really really liked that. I loved hearing how Jared spoke about Dev and Katie. Yeah, I loved that tender way that Jared spoke about Dev and Katie. And I also heard that in my interview with Shayla, the way that she speaks about Dev and Katie is so tender so loving and we are actually friends with Dev and Katie too. I can promise and attest that that's how they speak about Jared and Shayla too and I just think that's such a beautiful example of how we can build these relationships and turn them into something so gorgeous

45:36right like they're nurturing these relationships, they're respecting one another and there's just such a high level of trust and love, respect, and goodness, it's really beautiful to hear and watch. Another thing that I learned a little bit more about as I listened to Jared speak was that after placement birth parents are going to deal with their emotions in whatever way they need to, to overcome, to cope, to understand, to, you know, get to a point where they're okay.

46:11And I think it's important from the adoptive parent perspective to make sure that we allow whatever that process is to happen and to support how we can. It was interesting to me the difference between how he, how he dealt with and handled the situation and I'm sure when Shayla shares her story next week, you'll see a totally different way that she coped. I think that's really important to think about. Yeah, I loved doing these two episodes together like this. I'm excited to share next week as well and I just loved hearing Jared's story. I am so excited for you all to hear Shayla's story next week too.

46:49Thanks again to Jared for sharing his thoughts and feelings with us. Thanks to each of you for being listeners and we'll be back next week with Shayla's episode.

47:19Thank you.

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