Molly | Listen to Adoptees with Curiosity and Compassion

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project, We're the Nelsons, I'm Shaun, and in this episode my wife Lanette does an interview with Molly. Molly is an international transracial adoptee who lives in the northeastern part of the United States. In this episode she shares with us kind of this transformation that she's had recently as she's gone from having a closed adoption to having some

0:31reunification in her life and as a social worker she shares her perspective on what perhaps we as society can do to change the perception of adoption and ultimately the experience that many adoptees are having. I think that you'll really enjoy this conversation and as she shares I think it's just great that we get another adoptee voice to share her perspective to help us understand on

1:02a deeper level what so many people are experiencing. So we'll go ahead and jump into this episode now with Molly and Lynette. So we are here on the podcast with Molly. Molly thank you so much for being here with us. Thanks so much for having me. To start off can you tell us a bit about yourself, who you are, and what makes you you? Sure. So my name is Molly. Right now I am living in New Hampshire. I grew up in Massachusetts so I've always been in

1:34this New England area. I'm married, have a dog named Emily, and I am a social worker. I'm a medical social worker so I work in a primary care office right now. I've been in healthcare for a little over a decade now, been a while, but a social worker for about five going on six years now. Yeah when I'm not working I'm just enjoying time with my husband, the pup friends. I love cooking, music, I

2:08love writing. Well I love New Hampshire. I think it is such a pretty place and I feel like we're friends. I like a lot of those things too. Anyway so fun. Well thank you. So to start off can you share your adoption story? Sure. So I was adopted when I was two months old from Bogota, Colombia to two American parents, my mother and father. So this was late 80s so it was sort of a you know it was

2:38an interesting time to like go over there. But yeah they came to get me. It was through an agency called FANA in Bogota. It was a closed adoption so everything there is just completely closed from my understanding. They give you some records so kind of always have like sort of minimal you know information, story, what else? Yeah so they had to stay there for like some time. Obviously like since I was two months old I don't remember a lot

3:09about like that journey on the plane or anything like that. I grew up in Massachusetts. My father had a son from a previous marriage who lived with us at the time, a biological son. When I was almost five they adopted through a domestic adoption my younger sister. Then we had another like a friend of mine in elementary school who came to live with us and sort of like foster care and then

3:39kind of became guardianship like later in elementary school. So I have two adopted sisters. Growing up I didn't really have a lot besides like my siblings. Like I didn't really interact with a lot of other adoptees. I always knew about my adoption. I don't like remember there being like a specific moment where I was told. I just sort of always as far back as I can actually remember kind of just remember knowing that that I was adopted where I was adopted from. My mom always tells the story you know of coming over to get me

4:11from Columbia. I did know like my birth name and I knew my biological mother's name as well. So actually when I was younger like when I was in maybe like kindergarten like early grade school like I actually used to include like my birth name like as part of my middle name and I already have like a hyphenated last name because both my mom and dad's last name. So I had like a very long way of introducing myself in early grade school. It was something that yeah

4:43I just would kind of go around telling people this really long like six named name and I did know the name of like I said my biological mother. But beyond that like I didn't really know much else. It wasn't really until middle school maybe a little bit later grade school, middle school, high school being adopted like which wasn't really a huge part of like what I considered part of my identity or so you know I thought you know at the time it wasn't really until

5:14like maybe kind of towards the end of high school that I started to have a little curiosity just in kind of learning more about my biological family and their story. I didn't want to try to connect like have contact with them necessarily. I don't know if it was that I didn't want it or if it was like a fear of what other people might react as but I think it was I think there was some fear in all of that. So at the time I just decided that I was gonna reach out to FANA. I get some more you know ask them if I could get just like some more

5:47history and they responded they told me that in order to do that I had to be 18 years old that I you know was obviously welcome to come there and you know get some more from the records once I was 18. A little unclear if I had to go there to get that. That part's a little fuzzy to me. I suppose it was like a long time ago but I do know I definitely had to be 18. Impossible that I had to go there in person. That part I'm not sure about. So when I was so after my freshman year of

6:19college I went to visit. I actually traveled by myself. My father had an alumna from his school that he works at who lived actually in Bogota, Colombia and had said if your daughter ever wants to come over here she's more than welcome to. So I stayed with her for part of the time and actually part of the time I stayed in this place called Betty's Place which is for adoptive parents who are adopting you know from Colombia from I think generally for

6:52other countries who go and stay there. So I actually stayed there and I think my parents helped me like set up some of the logistics of the trip and everything and then part of the time like I said I stayed with this woman Maria who was an alumna and had gone to the school that my dad works at. I went there for the first time. I was 18 just was I 19? I might have been 19 at the time when I went there. I loved it. It was just such an amazing experience. I was really

7:22lucky because Maria was able to show me around and as a local and take me places that normally like wouldn't be able to go so it was not just like a touristy type place a touristy type trip I mean we were able to kind of go out to some of the more like rural areas. She had a family who had like a ranch somewhere. She really kind of just took me all over and I just kind of got to soak it in and realize how beautiful it was and I didn't know that like I had no idea about

7:55any of that you know it didn't have the best rep at the time as a country. My impression was like was kind of a little bit nervous and people when I told people like I was like sort of flying over there alone and even though I wasn't gonna be like going around by myself like I think people were like really wow you know it was just like kind of the stigma it just made it all you know all the better when I was actually over there and I could I was just like blown away by just how beautiful it was and how much green greenery you know just it's one of the most biodiverse countries in the world

8:29and it just was not what I was like expecting and so I just I loved it. I did go to fauna. I was able to get some information very limited it felt like a very little amount of information for all of that even though I was happy to have gone on the trip anyway but they just gave me like a little sort of blurb about like my biological mother's story and like what I sort of learned was that she had already had five children in that my biological father was sort of

9:03saying he wasn't going to be involved at the time wasn't supporting her and then she felt like she didn't have the means to support another child and they talked a little bit about like some of her childhood like some of her upbringing but again very vague just not like a lot of information and my understanding was that like the two siblings who were like older than me or the one sibling sorry he was older than me not to the one sibling who was older than me had the same father but some of the rest of them had different biological fathers so that

9:35was really it and I got like a copy of her ID which had like a at that time probably pretty dated picture of her and so that was like the first time I actually ever had like a picture of her definitely felt like when I looked at it like I looked a lot like her so I remember I always kept like all that paperwork and like it's very I actually still have it in the same folder you know keep it in a safe place and every you know every once a while kind of look

10:05at it and a lot of it like in Spanish and I would sometimes look at the picture and like feel like okay yeah I see like you know I see some of myself in her but when I came back from the trip it was I just don't really remember like sort of processing it really like I just kind of went back into business as usual and was in college at the time so didn't really kind of go there again I guess in terms

10:36of thinking much about the trip or things like things like that when I was graduated college I worked for a couple years and then I went back to the graduate school to get my MSW my master's in social work and my friends and I decided that we wanted to take a trip together because she was starting a master's to be a nurse practitioner so we decided we were going to take a trip together we decided actually to go to Colombia and Argentina and so we took this trip together and again we went back we saw Maria who had the woman that

11:08had shown me around before we stayed with her part of the time but most of the time we were at a hotel it was a little more touristy this time just was my friend one of my best friends was there and we wanted to show her some some things but again we got to you know drive around the countryside and everything both again I think we did go back to Fonda that time as well then again yeah I came back and just kind of was like right into grad school didn't really like I don't think I really like process a lot of it again just kind of

11:41right into grad school like a you know wonderful trip all right now I'm back and sort of was that way like for a while it wasn't really until the pandemic started and was that sort of beginning phase that I'm sure like as all of us were kind of you know stuck inside with all our thoughts and part of what I think started to kind of move me towards like processing my adoption and everything was that it was it wasn't actually something that I was really

12:14setting out to do I it was around the time that George Floyd was killed and I I knew like I really felt that you know very strongly and I wanted to sort of figure out like how can I you know learn more unlearn certain things and just you know how can I be a part of this you know this movement and how can I be an anti-racist and and I kind of realized you know Molly you can't really do this

12:48until you like you understand like your own racial identity and your own ethnic identity which wasn't something that I did really understand it was very confusing to me so sort of through that in different social media portals and everything like that I stumbled sort of somehow across the adopted community online it just sort of happened by accident just from there it really was like this realization of how everything kind of intersected ended up finding

13:20some adoptive groups that I joined I was thinking about trying to find my biological family at that point it was something that I was like I'm not really sure about I'm just kind of easing into this and I don't know if I want to do that yet and then the need just really grew a lot for me for a lot of different reasons last July I really decided like I'm gonna do this I want to I want to try to find them so I ended up trying to do it on my own first just like through

13:53social media and then I didn't really have much luck I just found somebody who had the same name lived like in the same location could have been around the right age reached out like clearly the person didn't have like Facebook Messenger so that was sort of like a dead end then I kind of took a break because I was a little discouraged about that a sort of a couple months later I said what else can I do someone else was trying to help me who had a connection there that was another dead end so finally in like late late October

14:28I said okay and I need to hire somebody who like can really do this like not not a this wild goose chase I'm trying to do myself so I went through healing puentes she's Colombian adoptee who lives in Bogota now and helped with reunion and and so that was really helpful because she lived there and so she was actually able to go to I don't quite know what office it was but some sort of office that provides some kind of assistance there and she was able to

15:01get a phone number and so this happened like right at the start of November I want to say so she was able to get this phone number and we didn't really know who belonged to she reached out and the person was a little bit weary it seemed like and we didn't know if it was my biological mother or a sibling but because thankfully I had like the SIDULA which is like their social security number and everything like we we could pretty much confirm by the name and by that that it was the right account anyway we just didn't know who this

15:33number was she kind of texted back and forth with this person for a little bit that finally I think she said this person had to just shut her off but was kind of like very cautious seeming finally she said you know offered to have a phone call to kind of explain the situation and then she called me to update me this is like in the middle like kind of the middle of November ish and she called me to update me that it was my biological sister her phone number she had you know explained situation my biological sister didn't

16:08even know that I existed she had offered like at some point if you sort of want to sit with me this is to my my biological sister she said you know if you want to sit with me you know kind of process some of this talk about it you know let's pick a time and I guess my biological sister her name is Paola said yes I can't what are you doing tonight so they ended up meeting that night and I was able to FaceTime in for a little bit which was surreal the next part of it

16:42was that she was gonna tell my biological mother that I had found them she told her the following week my biological other needed like a little time to sort of process and sort of real from it it wasn't too long I want to say like maybe a couple weeks we were able to set up a video call with them with both of them and thankfully I had Elena from healing point is there to like be on the call and interpret which was just huge huge support and I just was in total

17:15shock so like I I had like a million questions and I was like so excited a camera came on first talked to Paula a little bit and then once my biological mother came on the screen I just like I don't know I just went like had it like I just wasn't complete shock so I hadn't I didn't even know what to say I just like froze thankfully she sort of started to talk and share some of the story my husband actually filmed that moment so that I could go back and kind of watch

17:47it when I was not in like this place of not really fully processing all of it and I'm so glad that he did that that's been that was really helpful to have that but yeah just learning some more about my story they were right she did have five children I was I was the sixth at the time the same that they told me about my biological father part they sort of missed was that at the time Paola who's the who's the one who has the same father as me and is actually just we're very close in age like 15 months was having some sort of health

18:19problem at the time it was in the hospital and so that kind of added to her you know desperation and feeling like I don't have any support have a sick kid and someone in the hospital told her about fauna and so that's how I guess she found out about fauna and went through that route I learned that I have a younger brother who also has the same parents so it was kind of surprising and he's eight years younger and then I have four I guess would be like half

18:55siblings so a lot seven total including myself yeah that brought us up to like towards the end of November so it's pretty recent it just it feels like it's been a long time but also it just happened like a couple months ago and it's been an experience it's definitely been a roller coaster and I definitely am happy that I did that and was able to find them so that kind of brings yeah brings me up to the present Wow that's incredible so after that initial meeting

19:26with your mother have you been able to meet with her online again since then I have both of them on like what's app and I haven't done another video call unfortunately so she doesn't really have great like internet connection so that's been sort of frustrating a little bit of a barrier trying to kind of maybe figure that out with them and then my bio sister Paula she's like works a lot like she is actually she's a lawyer and she also does modeling and she teaches

19:59like some sort of class too so she's like constantly like busy so it's she it's hard for her to get over and like set up the video call and she's a little she's a little bit like all over the place so it's been hard that that's been hard to kind of navigate so it's been what's app and the hard thing with that is that I have to use like a translating app they're not the best I just much prefer like the face-to-face and having like an actual interpreter there it's a lot like it just takes a lot of energy and have you also been able to connect

20:30with your other siblings on WhatsApp no so the youngest one I have I did meet him on the video call I don't like how his whatsapp I'm like kind of okay with that like I think for now I don't I think he's studying right now he's in school he's I think he's a little bit more like reserved and so that's okay you know he was still willing to like meet me on the video call the four half siblings I don't even know about me still so that's been definitely like a

21:04difficult part of all this is that we did bring it up at the call and sort of my my bi mom kind of said you know I just need some more time you know we can tell them in time but I need some more time and it's like I don't know how much more time you need but it's it's a little frustrating on my end just that feeling a secret like that doesn't sit well I really really like to the other part of that is that the one of the sisters is in Texas and speaks English so like to have at least heard no would be just like huge for me and so I that

21:39is actually something that I'm going to bring up in the next phone call that just don't want to bring it up on the whatsapp so once a plan like the next phone call it is something when I do want to ask just straight out like can we at least tell her and she'll probably tell the other two because I think they have the same father so but that just would be huge to have you know wouldn't have like the language barrier and also just understanding like more about you know there wouldn't be as much of the cultural divide because she's been here

22:11for a while so that is definitely like something that I'm hoping will happen in like in your future wow so this is all very recent very fresh yeah so in retrospect as you look at your whole story what do you wish that your adoptive parents had known about adoptive trauma and adopting needs before adopting oh great question um it kind of feels almost like as if they didn't know like anything so I mean really I would have you know I understand in some ways

22:44that it was a different time but like also to an extent of having two parents who are you know in education very educated you know very empathetic people you know there's disappointment there that there wasn't more attempt to sort of just learn more and especially with it being like an international adoption so I think you know it I wish that they did do more learning I know that there

23:14maybe weren't as many resources as there are today and I understand that but there was still some things out there and that's one thing that I wish they knew I think also the cultural aspects of everything like I wish that that was really emphasized by by them but also that the agency you know holds responsibility in that too there's no sort of clause or requirement or anything like that it's just I had no education at all about my culture growing up nothing I do like we didn't do anything like no traditions no food

23:51absolutely nothing so that's hard because now I'm like in my 30s and I'm trying to like teach myself all of this and I feel like really behind and I wish that they knew like how important that was in addition to just knowing about like a duck adoption trauma trauma and understanding your culture yeah so what advice would you give to other adoptees who are searching for their families have a really strong support system it is an emotional roller coaster regardless

24:23of the outcome some people may not find their families some people might get a secondary rejection some people might find them and even then it's you know it's an emotional roller coaster so I could not imagine going into this without having a really solid support system and it was one of the things that I said I'm not going into this unless I've maximized every support which is like me being a little bit social I agree but um but that's why I found two groups I

24:53have two adoptive groups that I'm in and I have therapists I have great friends my husband my sister you know so I have I have people that are really supportive and the people who are not adoptees themselves like it's they're supportive and it's just a different kind of support when you have people that have gone through it so that is something that I would definitely say like it's great to have people for support whether they're adopted or not or don't have

25:24gone through this or not I think it's important to have both and the therapist I'm definitely a big advocate of that it's just you need a place that's just your own and that you can kind of process and because it can bring up a lot of stuff and even as much as you might think you're all prepared like when you get into it like you're there's just no way you can like really prepare yourself fully for it so yeah that would be my biggest advice and then I'd say also just like be gentle with yourself because it does sort of awaken these

25:58parts of you that maybe you weren't really attuned to and and so have a lot of self-awareness and introspection and just kind of be mindful of that and just be gentle on yourself like you're responding to something a certain way maybe think about that a little bit like how that's related and that would be the other thing I would say and that is another reason why it's so important to have some of those other supports I just mentioned so that you can unpack that also started journaling as well and that's helpful too it's not for everyone

26:31but definitely can be helpful and then you also have your Instagram page and did you started that pretty recently right was that an additional form of kind of journaling or working through yes it was because I was starting to share a lot more like adoption related content on my regular Instagram like my private personal Instagram page and really just wanted a space where I could just focus on that and then maybe some other kind of social issues so that's sort of what inspired me to do that I was inspired by other people who have done that found it yeah in its own way to be very like therapeutic and help me

27:05connect with other people and so then the reason that you know it's named the way it is is because that Carmen was my name given to me at birth and part of my story that I learned was that I always thought that my biological mother had given me that name and that's why I was sort of so I think part of why I was looking back like I was so proud of it and included it in my name and then I come to learn that she didn't even name me so I found that out in our video call

27:38who named me then we don't know I have no idea was it a nurse in the hospital was it a lawyer was I actually have no idea was a fauna I don't I don't know she wanted to name me she had actually picked out a name that she wanted to name me they and she said that you know and they basically in the hospital they said no you can't name her they actually wouldn't even let her hold me like she asked and they said you know the paperwork has been signed already so no

28:11you can't Wow at that point I think she was feeling really like I don't what have I done here you know she did go back like a couple years later to find out if she could you know learn anything about like where I was or in just how I was doing and they basically said nope it's closed like and they turned her away they won't even tell her a country she's like can you at least tell me what country and they said no so she had no idea so that was all very hard to hear and so I was kind of like I created this account found out that the name was like not actually the name that she gave to me and so I was like oh no I just

28:44started it's like should I should I change it ultimately I kind of thought about it and was like actually it's sort of symbolic in a way like it's sort of like this name between these two different intersecting parts like it it wasn't the name that my first family you know my first mother wanted to give me obviously isn't the name that I have you know now for my adopted family it's like this name that's like maybe the industry or that's like caught in between these two places highlights just like the complexities adoption and everything so

29:16I decided to keep it as part of my username for that reason yeah Wow yeah it sounds like I'm not sure exactly what adoption policy is in Colombia today but that's really interesting that she signed papers before you were born and she wasn't able to access any information about you Wow yeah that's really awful how sad I mean I can't say it's like very surprising but you just it's still shocking to hear that sort of callousness that she experienced you

29:46know and she didn't want to push it too much because my older sister was in the hospital and I think she was afraid that like maybe they were gonna take her ways but she just sort of that's often it's like we need to get out of that yeah so it's heartbreaking Wow yeah that's sad so in your experience what are some other ways that you can think of the family members friends loved ones can support adoptees and help them address different struggles they're facing

30:16really to just listen and learn and I've been grateful that you know because I hear these stories about people's friends just being like really more spouses just like not being understanding I haven't really experienced that as I started to kind of share more about my story and open up and talk more about it my closest friends with my closest friends and with even some people who maybe weren't my closest friends of course my husband who's like my primary support was just sort of met with like support and with them asking questions just and I so I think that you know I think the big thing is just being

30:49compassionate and also being curious like I think that if people are doing those two things like you really it goes a lot farther than people realize so if you're showing up with compassion they're showing up with curiosity if you don't know or you're not sure something's right or wrong just ask if there's something I don't want to answer then I won't answer it you know that's where a lot of people go wrong I think some people react with defensiveness because something maybe triggers them in some way or they don't understand it we're all taught a very specific you know adoption narrative in society so I

31:23think that you know with that being said that's really ingrained in a lot of people and it was ingrained in me I got defensive at first when I was coming out of the fog I was definitely seeing posts and going you know like what and and so I had to kind of be like what why am I reacting that way and so I think people need to do that I think people need to when they starting to feel that way because they don't necessarily agree with somebody and somebody with the lived experiences sharing it they need to kind of step back and and not respond

31:54if it's not going to be within compassion or curiosity if it's with defensiveness then people need to understand that that's about them and that they really need to like unpack that for themselves and understand like what we're where does that coming from it's not always easy but I think that that's the biggest thing I would say to people is just just listen and elevate the voices and that's the best thing that you know that they can do to be supportive yeah well I love how simple you made that compassion and curiosity that's perfect so well said so as you've been learning more about your own story

32:30how has that affected your perceptions of adoption I've done like a total 180 I was very much like in the adoption is like a beautiful miracle narrative and a savior narrative and that's all I have ever known or learned so you know that's just how how I was taught even if something wasn't quite right like at some point like I think I just you know kind of suppressed a lot and you know there are things that are easier about that in a way with coming on the fog and

33:01and really starting you know really processing because coming on the fog is an ongoing thing you know it's not like you do it in two months and then and then you're done so I think like when when I was really at the start of it and then in the thick of it you know it was just so much to unlearn and to kind of look back and and reflect on certain things that all sudden it just kind of started to click you know things made sense just that sort of part of my identity and just realizing like you know I've been telling myself this just

33:33doesn't really matter that much and then wow this is really a huge part of who I am and like it's not my only identity no but it is a huge there's a huge part of it and I think recognizing that is very healing and it's helped me kind of understand like the trauma part is a big part and how that affected me personally also the the more like macro part like the policy part too so kind of both of those things and how you know they're connected what do you wish other

34:06people understood about growing up as an international adoptee I think you know for a lot of us international adoptees not everybody but a lot of us are also transracial adoptees like I said before sort of like that access and that you know in your culture of origin and having mirrors you know it's just so important and I didn't have that and I think that's really important for people to understand like why that's so meaningful for an international translational adoptee to have these mirrors and to to know about our

34:38cultures of origin and perhaps like visiting them even when we're younger or incorporating you know traditions I wish that that was just like a really normalized part and I think it's gotten a little better but I definitely think we still have a long way to go I know it might not be like it was like in the 1980s but you know we still have a ways to go I think that people need to recognize you know that that is a part of our identities even though we're seemingly disconnected from that culture that that's still a part of our

35:11identities and it's okay to reconnect because I think without that sort of realization at least people feeling like we're imposters like in our own you know roots and I feel that way sometimes more people understood that you know maybe more people less people would feel that way so growing up in the northeast of the United States do you feel like you experienced discrimination and racism yeah so I mean I grew up in a very very little bubble New England you know and I

35:48was in a predominantly pretty much all predominantly white schools wasn't a lot of diversity I was in private school for like elementary elementary for middle school and high school so you know less diversity there it was something I was aware of as a child but I didn't have any like ability to sort of verbalize that or like express that but I definitely was aware of it and had people you know there were microaggressions like and there were people that would be

36:18like are those your real parents or you know like but where are you from where are you from from like where you really from you know and or people just coming up and asking are you blah blah blah you know like insert grace like it just you know there were things in as a kid those get to you but you can't like you know when I was younger like I didn't want to sort of rock the boat in any way or like draw attention to that so I didn't like to say anything like or speak up about it I just sort of like sat with that like as a little kid and didn't tell

36:51anybody which is really sad you know looking back and I don't want that for any other like adopted you know trans racially adopted kids so that's the big part of why like I am speaking up and you know we can't change like my upbringing but I hope you know we can go back and create a lot of change for these future generations it's hard to like I'll go into a room I would always I am room and I would know the one other person who was like diverse you know I would go to

37:21we would go to like we would be like the diverse group of people at school they'd have like a diversity night or something strange like that those are just so weird so yeah definitely felt isolating and I didn't see people like who looks like me I just didn't I had no mirrors when I did it was like not somebody who was like a friend of the family or like a friend in school it was like someone ran to met like a store you know like it just wasn't there was nobody like really

37:53in my immediate presence who was Amir and it sounds like you really weren't comfortable talking about these experiences or these needs that you had with your adoptive parents yeah I wasn't yeah I definitely I I don't know like it's hard to go back and think like what was 10 year old me thinking or what was seven year old me thinking I mean I think I can speak a little to that like I think part of it was just that like everything has to like be okay like I

38:25don't want to upset anybody I don't want to rock the boat I don't want to draw attention to it I was like a don't draw attention kind of kind of girl and I you know done reflecting on that and how that's related to I was very very shy when I was little a lot of social anxiety when I was growing up like all through elementary school middle school high school a little better like I'd say like in college and but when I was like little it was just it was bad so I

38:56think that was part of it too was just well I don't want to point out like that I'm different like so if I don't like share this then maybe people won't notice as much you know I think some of that too my parents my adoptive parents I just call them my parents but sometimes like in this reunion process I specify some people like know who I'm talking about they're older you know they're in their early 70s now they're one I mean they're wonderful people I love them and I'm very close with both of them do I wish they had done a lot of

39:26things differently absolutely do I feel like they didn't do a lot of things they should have absolutely and it's sort of a hard thing to wrap my head around a little bit like there's a lot of coexisting in adoption so that's one of those coexisting things because we talk openly about many things and this was sort of like a taboo so what do you think some of the biggest challenges the adoption community faces are today I think it's just changing this really

39:58dominant narrative I mean it's just really everywhere you turn it's gonna set a commercial it's in a good news social media feed that's enough you know it's just everywhere you can't like you can't really escape it it's in Hollywood like this this sort of you know Savior narrative that I kind of alluded to before I think changing that is gonna be very very difficult and I think that's because a lot of people I think are very people want to you know

40:28see things like a positive way and I think people don't necessarily understand sometimes when you're bringing up something that like maybe challenges that or like isn't completely positive that you're not saying like it's all bad like it's not always just like a black-and-white situation you know and so I think that that is gonna be difficult and I you know I I think people get like I said that's that defensiveness and that fear it comes from a place of fear and people being uncomfortable it's a lot easier to

40:58take in those stories that are the mainstream story than it is to you know hear this story of trauma or pain in some way that's because it's truly a lot of stuff in our culture you know you can think about the way we are about like grief so I think that is definitely I think one of the biggest the biggest barriers with starting to make some of those other changes we talked about how your reunification has shifted some of your perceptions about adoption and

41:31about your story your training as a social worker did that shift any of your perspectives as well when I was in grad school it definitely shifted a lot of views world views but the adoption part like I still was like I still was like what they call like in the fog you know at the time so much so that at one point they actually did address adoption trauma in one of my classes some sort of childhood development class which is a great thing I actually emailed the

42:02professor like in a defensive in a defensive way about it like that's how deeply I was in the fog and like again now I can look back and reflect like that place of like defensiveness and the need to like email that professor obviously came from this place where like it it like clearly upset something inside of me like and really have insight into that until like later on and I'm glad they brought that up in the course I I hope they still do that it's really been eye-opening just being now more you know being actually in the

42:36field you're practicing as a social worker and seeing you know the intersection of policy and different social issues and the interconnectedness you know with with adoption you know I right now serve a population that's very low-income pretty high like mental health acuity you know for it's been it's been a very difficult couple of years in particular as I reflected you know I definitely don't think it's like a coincidence that you know my sort of

43:07story begins with a mother who didn't have the resources and means to raise me you know to keep me to raise me and then I went into a profession that is about like connecting people with like resources and supports I mean that's not completely lost on me I don't think that's a coincidence I think that we have to see the like how these things connect with each other because I see it all the time you know when I work that a lot of these people well they want to be

43:41together as a family and they would be able to do that or be much more able with more resources with more support more community supports more access to things and that would help preserve a lot of these families and not have that now a lot of people with like child protective involvement things like that and that's been hard I've noticed a lot more of that I don't know if it just like it's one of those things where I think it's also that I'm just like hyper aware of it now but absolutely I mean it's changed like my whole lens with

44:16all of it absolutely I do think that's a really beautiful story of just how you think that you came into social work as a result of your experiences I think that makes sense all right what else would you like to talk about today I think I would just say you know keep listening you know wherever you are in the constellation you know all our voices can be heard I do firmly believe that you know the adoptive voices do need to be elevated because we are the ones living that experience I'm so glad that we're seeing like two like more

44:49first parents share their stories as well but I think that we still have more of that and just normalize talking about some of these things that are not you know tied up in a little in a little bow I think that we need to normalize some of these more difficult uncomfortable conversations the thing is like if you know sharing sharing like what you're learning and people listen and respect when people that they know telling them something or teaching them something and we need to use that you know this is time where people need to use that and always centering adoptees you know we are you know the lived

45:25experience we're the group of the lived experience so centering that understanding that things can coexist I mean that's been one of the biggest lessons that I've like been learning it's like I can love this thing but also be so horrified by this thing you know it's just like I can I can love my adopted parents and I can also have this love for my biological family I can be

45:57very disgruntled you know with and and sort of horrifies a lot of the time with like the adoption industry but also still love my adoptive family you know and I can there's just a lot of things that like this all these dualities you know and all these nuances I think we just need to give a lot of space for those and there's no someone's telling you about their trauma or their story just listen and try to learn from that you know because it doesn't mean they're

46:29saying you're bad or everything's bad it's just it's just people trying to bring awareness to some things that just have not gotten any awareness so beautiful compassion and curiosity that's going to stick with me yes those two things yeah people have those down then that goes a long way you know there's a talk of are you for you against adoption I mean the reality is is that it's not going anywhere anytime soon so you know what can we do

46:59to make this more ethical to make this better as it is now when there's less adoptions that that's a good thing that means there's more resources and there's people getting the support that they need it's been wonderful to see some of the some more stories kind of getting more public I know some documentaries that kind of came out and I just think yeah we need we absolutely need need more of that and we've been creating our own tables instead of waiting to get like invited to people's tables and and I think you know exactly like

47:34what you're what you're doing you know with this podcast which is highlighting many different experiences and perspectives and I so admire that I think it's just an awesome thing so thank you so much you know for for what you're doing yeah wow well thank you so much for all that you shared for taking time to be here thank you

48:15thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project and thank you again so much to Molly for sharing your story with us we're always so grateful to hear these different adoptee experiences and be able to learn from people who have lived through adoption right and really our focus is always how we how can we help adoptees how can we improve the experience that they're having and it's so helpful to hear adoptees like Molly shed light on this and share the things that have been hard and the things that they're feeling

48:49and just their truths right and hopefully it can help all of us to be more compassionate and better in all that we do something that I really loved that she talked about a few times in this episode was how we can listen to adoptees with curiosity and compassion I thought that was just such fantastic advice listen and don't have your guard up right and be ready to hear without having your defenses up or being worried about getting offended just focused on

49:22hearing what they have to say without any ifs or buts yeah I really like that too I think that often we get really comfortable in this situation or circumstance that we find ourselves in and when we hear stories or experiences that perhaps differ from our own lived experience it's easy for us to make a judgment about that and yeah I really liked that she kind of encouraged that type of communication where if I find myself wanting to react in a way to

49:56something that said why am I reacting like what what's what's getting me to that point and so that's something that I walked away with from this lesson and not to only apply it in the conversations about adoption but really in everyday life when when I find myself not seeing I was somebody or wanting to react perhaps in a negative way questioning what's going on inside of me that's making me feel or think this way I love that yeah so applicable on so many

50:26levels and different parts of our lives right I also liked how she talked about the importance of adoptees having cultural and racial mirrors and how to honor international adoptees cultures of origin I think that's a really important conversation we need to keep having yeah and we've talked about that a little bit on previous episodes but if if an adoptee doesn't maybe match the racial makeup of their adoptive family that it really falls on the adoptive family to make sure that they're providing mirrors and experience and cultural

50:57opportunities so that they feel that connection in an experience that might be absent of it yes we want our children to feel like all of them is loved and accepted every part of them and honoring their cultures of origin and respecting the differences and helping them know that we value every part of them I think is just such a key important thing to do yeah and I think that that's a great

51:27thought it also makes me think of just the importance of open adoptions in general like I think of our four children they are all so unique and distinct individuals and the people that love them for who they are and that their little quirks and everything the more love and the more support that they get no matter what background they come from well how well they're doing in school what their talents or skills are or what they struggle with if they feel that love it goes a really long way and so I I just really love that thought and

52:01I think it could be applied to any any relationship especially adoption situations absolutely well thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project thank you also for those of you who have given us a five-star rating or have left comments it really helps other people connect with the adoption community and we just love getting people's voices out there so if you haven't left review or rated the podcast please do that so we can continue connecting with more people again thanks so much for listening to this episode of

52:31the open adoption project we'll be back next week

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