Shayla | Her Side

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project, we're The Nelsons, I'm Shaun, and in this episode my wife Lanette does an interview with Shayla. For those of you who were able to listen to our previous episode with Jared, this is kind of a follow-up, maybe a part two in a sense, where Jared and Shayla are birth parents and share their story about placing their son almost a decade ago. Ultimately, maybe a spoiler, they ended up getting married a few years after they placed their first son, and last week we heard Jared's experience and got to hear the birth father

0:32perspective of the story, and we thought it would be fun to share with you the same story but from a different perspective. So we're just going to jump in and I'll share this interview that Shayla and Lanette had together, and I hope that with this and the episode last week with me and Jared, that you can kind of see the whole picture and the vast array of emotions, feelings, and experiences that happen in an adoption placement. So we hope you enjoy this episode with Shayla.

1:02Alright, so we are here on the podcast with Shayla. Shayla, thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you for having me. To start off, can you share some things about yourself? What makes you you? Well, I'm Shayla. I will have a 10-year-old this year, this April, my birth son, and then I have two boys, Declan and Benny. Declan actually turns four this Saturday.

1:34I'm not ready. I'm not ready. And Benny's too, and I'm working full-time right now. I just started and I'm taking an online course for medical coding. I love to be outdoors. Really since getting married, all of my hobbies have kind of like shifted. So anything outdoors, dirt biking, hiking, camping, those kind of things, I love to do. I grew up camping and fishing, but it's just like a whole different experience when you

2:08go with your spouse or your kids. And I love doing that with them. Wow. So it sounds like you are super busy with your little ones at home doing school and work. That's amazing. Thankfully, I married somebody who is pretty good at holding down the house while I'm gone. Yeah. I'm so grateful that I married someone like that too, where it's like a true equal partnership. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. Can you share how you're connected to adoption now?

2:39Adoption is in my life in two different ways. My mom is a surrogate. And so I have a half sister who is 18 and then adoption came into my life more personally when my boyfriend at the time and I, I was 16, he was 18 and we had dated forever, but then we found out we were pregnant. Oh my gosh. We didn't know what to do. I mean, we're young. My mom was six months pregnant when I found out that I was.

3:13And then Jared's mom had just found out that she was pregnant as well. So we were all pregnant and that was, that was a nightmare. A lot of hormones, a lot of crying and anger, but we somehow made it alive. I don't know how, but we did. Jared and I never considered adoption until my mom had mentioned it. And that was around month three.

3:45And she actually set up like the appointment and we met with Margaret and I actually told her we were doing this podcast and she was so excited. She was so excited. She's the sweetest lady ever. So you guys are still in touch. Yeah. That's awesome. Oh yeah. She loves watching our family grow. And so then at four months, we started going and meeting with Margaret every Wednesday. And then things started getting like super hairy between, you know, Jared and I.

4:15So we started going separately and poor Margaret, bless her soul, had to deal with a 16 year old girl who's pregnant and is like madly in love with this guy who's being a bum. And you know, it was more of just like me going and venting to her for weeks and weeks. And you know, she tried to like throw in little things here and there of like the adoption. And I'm just like, no, like my sob story.

4:47We actually met with a couple because we started looking at couples around six months and about month seven, we thought we had found a couple. And I had my weird stipulations and Jared had his. And so this couple that we found, they were amazing in so many ways. And we actually told them that we're going to place with them. But then afterwards, I just had like this weird like feeling. I'm like, I just I don't I don't feel that's right.

5:19It's not the right thing. And so we pushed it off until like a month before the baby was due. And Margaret was like, look, I've got these two couples. I really think you should meet them. One already had kids. And so we're like, OK, you know, one of my stipulations was he like he had to be the first baby. I wanted him to be spoiled because, you know, Jared and I are both the oldest, the oldest

5:52you get spoiled. But you also learn a lot of responsibilities really fast. So I was like, I want that for him. I want him to be able to experience one on one time with his parents. So the first couple, they it wasn't going to be that way. And then we found out that they were going to be moving out of state. So I was like, no, we met with Devon and Katie. Oh, my gosh. That was like not even a meeting at all. It was just like it almost felt like a catch up.

6:24Like we didn't know each other. So they brought this photo album and it was just pictures of like them dating, their wedding, all the adventures that they go on because they do that a lot. I can't keep up with them. And it was just so interesting because I didn't want anybody in state and they lived in the same city as me. And so I was like, OK, this is not what I had originally wanted.

6:54But it worked out in so many ways that I'm thankful for. I never did run into them. I ran into Devon once at Walmart. But that was it. Oddly. So I met with them and that was on a Tuesday. And then Wednesday, they wanted to take us out to dinner just to kind of get to know us. And Thursday was the day that we told them like, you are like a part of us, you know.

7:24Friday, Katie took me out to get pedicures. And I was like in labor the entire time. It was so painful. And I'm sitting there like, you know, trying to keep it together. I'm like, oh, this hurts. I was just like, oh, I just keep getting like these contractions and they hurt. They were like getting more painful, but didn't think anything of it. Then I had them on Saturday. But they were able to put an entire nursery together from what day was it?

7:55Thursday to Saturday. We didn't tell them until Sunday, but that's just because like, you know, our caseworker wasn't in town. And so we're like, we're just going to enjoy this night with just the three of us. I feel like that really helped me, you know, just because I had that time with them. So I really loved that you made sure that the three of you got that time together with just the three of you. I think that's really special and really important. So is there anything else that you want to share from your time in the hospital?

8:28So I'll just start from the beginning because, you know, it's being a young mom going into the hospital, knowing that you're not coming home with that baby unless you decide to change your mind last second. You know what happens? It was crazy. My mom actually took me in because I was at my brother's lacrosse game and Jared was at work. He picked up a Saturday and she was like, flying down the freeway.

9:01I'm in the passenger seat, like not even sitting on the seat. I'm propping myself up with my head like out the window. I'm like, oh my gosh, like I can't do this. And we get to the hospital and they're like, you're out of six. And I just remember my mom saying, we're having a baby today. And I was just like crying. I was like, ah. So I'm like texting Jared and he didn't believe me because we had a false alarm the night

9:32before. And I was like, no, like this is the real deal. I don't remember much because I went pretty hard on the epidural button. I will admit that. I couldn't move my legs for like four hours after. I remember there was like a moment of like panic because the cord was wrapped around his neck. They were like, we've got to get this baby out. So I pushed for 45 minutes and I delivered him, but I wasn't able to hold him right away

10:05because he did have the cord wrapped around his neck and he came out wiped and he was like blotchy. So they took him to the NICU. The first picture I saw of him, my dad was holding him up, had him like popped up. I had him at 451 and I didn't see him until almost nine just because they wanted to make sure that he was okay. And then they wheeled me down and I was able to see him. Sunday we texted Devon and Katie.

10:36That's when we decided because, you know, we took the time to go through the list of names that they had given us to pick from. And then we thought of like his middle name because they gave us free range of that. And then that's actually how we told him that he was here. We sent a little picture of us all together and we're like, he looks like a Carson. They came to the hospital and they got to feed him. My emotions were kind of shut off at that point.

11:08I was just thankful because, you know, they took the time to put this huge like tote of like very meaningful gifts. It was just really thought out. And you know, they did like one for me, one for Jared and just like all this stuff. And they even had all of their family members write a letter to us. And you know, they were just excited to, you know, meet us and for us to be a part of the family. And I still have all of this.

11:39I think that helped. There was a lot of really good gifts in there. They gave us a picture album of them that, you know, we could go through and put pictures of Carson in to add to it. Then came Monday when our caseworker was back in town. And that day was hard because I had been crying. We had my mom, my dad, Jared's parents, and then some of Jared's siblings had come to

12:12see the baby. And so there was just a lot of people. We had the caseworker there and then we had to have our witnesses. And so I broke down. I lost it. I went and I hid in the bathroom and I just cried and cried. I was like, I don't want to do this. Like this hurts way too much. And Jared came in and he sat with me and I don't know where I'd be if I didn't have all

12:44the support, not just from him, but from like my parents and my caseworker and Deb and Katie, because I knew that they would always be there and they have. I mean, like looking back at the pictures, that's all I can remember. And I just remember like sitting there posing for these pictures, trying to look happy. And it's like, it is such a happy moment. But the picture that gets me the most is when they captured us like handing him over.

13:15And like the last image I have was of all of us like leaving the hospital and driving away in separate cars. I had a friend, like my best friend, she came and stayed with me for, my gosh, she stayed with me for like two weeks after I had him. And the first night, my mom and her got in my bed and slept next to me all night. Three days before I went into labor, like Saturday, Friday, Thursday, Wednesday, it's

13:49like Tuesday or Wednesday, my mom took me to pick out a little dog as like, as like my baby. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's such a good idea. It was the best thing ever. Yeah. Having like a puppy helped so much because I had something to come home and look forward to, and it's like that little dog looked up to me for everything. And he did. Oh, and my mom actually she snuck him into the hospital a couple times.

14:21I do feel like I was, I was kind of able to move past like all the adoption grief afterwards because my mom did just have my sister and she was six months when I had Carson. And then my mom was like in and out of the hospital, just really, really sick for an entire year. So you know, between the dog, my sister, and then working, I kept myself so busy, so, so busy.

14:51So can you share what your relationship with Devon Katie has looked like ever since after Carson was born? Yes. So the relationship with Devon and Katie, it, I mean, we started off as friends because you know, we just clicked so well. And one of my, one of my stipulations was I wanted it closed because I did. I was like, I don't want any contact. I just want to move on and heal.

15:22But then, you know, we compromised and we're like, okay, well, what if we do like the first year? And that was actually Margaret's idea. But then no, Devon and Katie came dancing in the way they do and with these big smiles and this like, oh my gosh, they are amazing. A year came by and it went by so fast. You know, we were getting the first three months, we would go like every other week and we did like once a month for a long, long time.

15:54Even when like Jared and I had split for about a year and a half and you know, they still made it work, you know, meeting like both of our needs and double the gifts and everything. Once the year mark hit, you know, we had like our talk, Katie was like, she's like, I don't want anything to change. I couldn't do it because we had such a good bond. We didn't look at it as we gave you our child. It was more of like, you are a part of our family now.

16:27You helped us in a way that we could never repay you. And I do feel like that is a big thing is to let the parents know like, no, you're a part of our family now. We are still in a very open adoption. We actually just went dirt biking with them. It was so fun. We're just planning this, you know, full day trip with them. Like it's no big deal. It's always kind of been like that. The coolest thing ever, he had a talk in church and it was on friendship and he invited us

17:01to go. And I thought, hey, this is kind of interesting, like inviting us to go to church with you. And Jerry couldn't make it because he was working. But I went and it wasn't just a talk on friendship. It was a talk on our friendship with them. And he's like, I can't remember word for word, but from what I took of it, it was like, you know, we had to trust them right off the bat. No notice, nothing, just we're getting a child from you.

17:35You know, we have to build this trust really fast. And I already said it once, but it's like the most important thing is to have that friendship with them because they'll be a part of your life the rest of your life. What would your advice be for someone who's trying to build one of these non-traditional familial relationships, right? Where you don't quite have that foundation of trust yet, where you're building this relationship and you're trying to get to that point. You talk, you communicate, you be honest.

18:06Like if you need a video to hear the babies cry, do it. I did it. I was like, I just need a video. And there were a lot of times where I kind of held back. It was more so the moments where I'm like, I really, really need it versus the moments of like, oh, I miss his little face. You know, I didn't want to exhaust my gift that I was being given.

18:36I wanted to, you know, just, I wanted to stay on the surface. And then it's like, okay, I'm only going to do that when I really, really need it. And there were definitely times, you know, be like, hey, like I said, can you just send me a video? I can just have a hard day. I've never called Katie. I'm not a phone call person, but I just text her and be like, hey, can we do an extra visit? Like, and she would say yes or no. Like, okay, yeah, you know, does this day work?

19:06That's the only time I'm free or we're free. And I'll be like, yeah. And I definitely feel like they, they made sure that my needs were met. And they never made me second guess my decisions or they made me feel bad for asking for those extra visits or pictures or videos. We would get like updates every week. Katie would sit down and type out and we still have all of them.

19:39Jared's mom actually went through and printed them all. And then like she put the pictures with them. So we have like this binder, like this big of like the first six months of his life, just of these updates and pictures. And like those really helped a lot. I feel like we were definitely kept in the loop too. Like, oh, he's, you know, he's breaking a tooth or he smiled. We would get pictures of it all. So it's not like we were missing out on that. She definitely kept us very in the loop.

20:12And you have like, you really do. You have to go into it knowing that it's not a business transaction. It's or a business purchase. It is your life, your entire life. You need to go with somebody that you connect with right off the bat. Don't just be like, oh, here's my baby. And then be done. Like I fall on back out of a placement because I'm like, I just don't have a good feeling

20:42about it. And I'm so glad that I did because we would not have what we have today. What do you wish you had known about adoption before your son was born? That it takes forever and it's super painful for your milk to dry. So everybody gets it. That hurts a lot. I imagine that adds to the emotional trauma too. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Because it's like you're in pain and like even expressing it a little bit just makes

21:14more come in. So you're literally wrapped in a bandage. I mean, I was 16. I didn't think like, oh, I wonder if I could like pump and then give it to him or even donate it at that point. But there's so many options now for people to do that. There's so much that goes into it. It's like, what's best for me? What's best for them? What's best for the baby? And it's like at that point, like after placement, you have to do what's best for you. You have to focus on you. You have to grow. You have to figure out this new life.

21:44You have to figure out how to talk to people because there's some people coming up and like, well, where's your baby? And then you're like, I placed him for adoption. They're like, you gave him away? It's like, no, no, no, no, no. I gave him more than I could ever give him. I gave him a mom, a dad that loved each other, a stable home. I can grow up still. I can continue.

22:14And for high schoolers, they don't really see that. But it's like the way that Katie tells Carson how he came into this world was he had to come through me and she wouldn't have him if it weren't for me. And so now I'm like, that's how it is. Like I had to go through the sacrifice and the heartache and everything.

22:44But to see Devon and Katie with a family and this child that is, he just meshes with them. I mean, his natural talents are like right up there with what they do. And so it's just it's rewarding. It's like I helped that family get started. So that's the best way I explain it now is he had to come through me to go to them.

23:16The timing was not ideal, but we made the best of it. Wow, that's beautiful. What kind of pre and post placement counseling did you receive? It sounds like you had a good relationship with your counselor, Margaret. So what did that counseling look like? None, actually. It was only during. I kind of shut off. I didn't want to talk to anybody about it.

23:47I never got big into like the adoption community where, you know, birth moms are telling like their story all the time and trying to like help counsel counsel people. I just kind of stayed low key. People would ask me all the time for advice and I would do it. I could. I have helped quite a few people, but it's nice, you know, going out there and people don't know everything about me.

24:17It never really gets easier. It you just kind of learn to cope with it and like each birthday, the birthdays are getting easier. You know, as my family grows, you know, it's gotten easier. But for the first couple of years, holidays are hard and Mother's Day, especially. But Katie always made sure to, you know, text me, give me flowers or a gift on birth Mother's

24:50Day, which is the day before. And she always she always made sure I knew how much she loved me and appreciated me. And that helped a lot. But the real struggle really did come when I had another. When we got pregnant with Declan, I was kind of like in this weird, like shock. I'm like, OK, this is like really weird.

25:20I would have like a nightmare of Katie taking him from me or leaving empty handed. And I was like, nobody ever talked about life and pregnancy and marriage after adoption. Granted, I married the birth dad, but a lot of people don't have that. And that's something that is a major struggle is that fear of leaving empty handed again. And that's all I can remember thinking was nobody talks about this.

25:55Like this is hard. You have that fear you have like, am I worthy enough? Like, am I am I mature enough now to have a kid? Like, can I do this? Can I raise it? Like, you just have so many questions and nobody knows how to talk to you about that. They're just like, no, you'll be a good mom. You know, you can do this. It's like, no, but really? Like I couldn't the first time.

26:25And so how am I capable now? Why? And that was a really big struggle. It took a toll on me. I didn't feel connected with the pregnancy at all. It wasn't until until I had him, I want to say that, you know, I was like, okay, I'm okay. Like, he's not leaving me.

26:56I've been a stay at home mom. And so he's literally been by my side all the time. And so this is where you're going back to work. And you know, I told Jared that I wanted that. I was like, I want, you know, at least the first year, you know, to stay home with him because it healed me a lot. I'd have to say that that was like the biggest other than the day of actually signing pregnancy

27:26afterwards is the next biggest struggle. It's hard being more like mature now. It was just people looked at you weird. And especially coming from like, you know, the super like religious areas, you know, they're like, oh, you're not really worthy. Like what you did was amazing, but it's still like, oh, you had premarital sex. You did something that you shouldn't have.

27:57It's like, yeah, I admit. Yeah, I did, obviously. But I also just created a family. So I mean, it is what it is. That one's hard. The hard question. We're not any less of a mom. We're not any less of a human being. We are a lot stronger than people give us credit for and a lot of people like, oh, you know, I couldn't do that.

28:28It's like, I didn't think I could either. But I saw the positive. I saw the future. I saw the future for this baby. And I saw what my future would be like if I had kept him versus placing him. And I, you know, you just have to think it through. And I don't regret it. That is one thing.

29:00And I don't know that I've ever met anybody who honestly regrets it. We have our days. Yes, we have our weeks. Yeah. But there was never more than like a week where I was like, why did I do this? Like why? Because you go to bed, you wake up and you're fine. You take a nap and you wake up and you're okay. Like the hormones that come with it are insane.

29:33Not I guess I shouldn't say the hormones, but like the emotions. It's hard. It is a roller coaster. Because you just get these waves of like, oh my gosh, like I miss that baby. It is very traumatic. I do feel like there is some PTSD with it because, you know, you go into the hospital, you go through labor, you get wheeled out of the hospital in a wheelchair with flowers

30:03and your bag of belongings. And that's that. Meanwhile, you know, the baby's going home and now this couple, they're going to have these sleepless nights. And it's like, you know, they struggle and I struggle. You know, I go through the grieving, the healing and everything, but they're up all night. And you know, they're trying to figure out like which formula is the best.

30:35And there's just a lot of struggles that nobody ever talks about, like the deep. It's not just like this beautiful picture where, you know, you guys walk out together holding hands. It's like now you, the cold hard reality is you go home empty handed. They go home and their sleep is gone. Or who knows how long. They don't, you know, they get like a brief list of food allergies from the parents and

31:07it's like, okay, we don't know if this baby is, you know, sensitive to milk or, you know, have soy issues or any of those random things out there now. And I have to give mad props to Devon and Katie for pulling it together so fast. And I look back at the pictures and I'm like, I understand now, like they were exhausted. And the fact that they just, they kept working on building the nursery and taking care of

31:43the newborn and keeping up with us. Like that is something that just, I'll never understand is how they can live their life, but then make sure that our needs are met. And the next birth mom's needs are met. And then the next. I love hearing this empathy that you have for Devon and Katie and their experiences. And I imagine that's really beneficial to your relationship when you're both practicing this empathy toward each other and thinking about the other's needs and trying to help

32:16one another. Yeah. Do you have any parting advice for how other expectant parents or birth parents can get through these hard things in adoption? If I could tell every young pregnant mom who's even considering it to weigh like the goods and the bads, there are so much more, like there's a lot more good that comes out of it versus not.

32:48They're not alone. There's a lot of people that they can talk to. What they're doing or what they're thinking, it's valid. You know, like all feelings are valid, especially when it comes to adoption. Like you're not any less for considering adoption. You're not any less for going through with it. Like if you have any doubt that you are going to struggle, your baby is going to struggle,

33:26and if you have just even like the smallest glimpse of adoption, like I highly recommend digging into it, finding somebody who's in it and just talking to them. And then stay in the baby's life because it does have a long-term effect because they get to that age where they're like, I want to know who my birth parents are. And so it's like, no, you know, you're not of age yet.

33:59And then it just kind of gets to them. Jared sees a lot of that with his work. There's a lot of troubled boys who have been adopted and a lot of them don't have their birth parents. And so I feel like staying in the picture, being there for the birth mom, you know, as like the birth dad, be there for her because it is hard and she's going through all the emotions just as well, as well as carrying the baby, feeling the kicks and dealing with

34:34all the hormones, like you don't get an easy pass out. Like you don't. Because as the birth mom, like that is something that you live with. And it's a lot harder for women, for sure. You don't get to just up and go. It's about love. It really is. It's about love. In every shape and form, every direction that you look at adoption, it is all based out of love and it comes straight from the heart.

35:08You have to sacrifice so much and it's because of the love you have. And it's a love that no other parent that isn't a part of like the adoption, whether it's like the adoptee, the birth mom, dad, grandparents, whatever, anybody that's associated with it, they just have this love brick that is in their heart and it's strong and it makes them stronger because it's something that you can't just do every day.

35:44It is something that takes a lot of time, a lot of preparing mentally, emotionally, physically, but in the end, you get the biggest reward. Your family grows sometimes 10 times the size and I am so grateful for the family that I am a part of now because there's so many and they share their love with me and I feel accepted

36:16and a part of them. I think that is a beautiful note to end on. Shayla, thank you so much. We loved having you on the podcast and really appreciate you being here and sharing with us. Thank you. You too. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project and we want to

36:51give a big thanks to Shayla again for sharing her story with us and being just so open and really just sharing some raw feelings and emotions. Yeah, I loved talking to Shayla and I loved hearing her side of the story as well as Jared's and just putting those together. I thought it was really neat to hear both of their perspectives and their thoughts. Yeah, I felt like, I mean, we got the kind of overarching feel of what the story was like last week and this I think plugged in a lot of more like in the moment type of feelings

37:26and emotions. One thing that I really appreciated about this episode and Shayla sharing and we've we heard a little bit about this in our episode with Gina, but there's not a lot of talk, at least not seemingly to birth parents when they are then growing the family that they're going to raise themselves. Like after placing. Yeah, after placing having another child, what that might be like, what feelings might

37:57happen. I think both Gina and Shayla shared that they had dreams like that the baby was taken away or that something bad would happen and I think it's important for us in the adoption community to support birth parents as they continue to in the future grow a family and have more children and to help them cope through maybe some difficult challenges that they might face. Yeah, and really encouraging therapy and professional help. Those are some really deep traumatic feelings to experience.

38:31I really loved how her mom encouraged her to get a support animal and helped her cope with her feelings right after placing with that. I thought that was such a smart idea and it sounds like it was really meaningful and helpful for her. It seemed to work really well for her. Yeah, I had never heard of that happening. Me either. I mean, logically, it makes sense to me that that would work. I think I think to consider would be that no matter how people are going to cope, we need to just support them how we can. Yeah, I just loved talking to Shayla.

39:03She is such a likable, wonderful person. Next week, we'll be back with another interview episode where we'll be talking to Anna Katia and she'll be sharing her story as an adoptee and talk about looking for her biological family in Costa Rica. Thank you again for listening to this episode of the OPEN Adoption Project.

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