“I Just Wanted to Know She’d Be Okay” with Lauren Eisenhauer

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 78. We're the Nelsons. I'm Shaun and I'm Lanette and today we are so excited to bring a birth parent interview to the podcast. It's been a little while. Yeah this episode is with Lauren. She is a birth mom who placed her daughter about 18 years ago and shares the story of how she chose adoption, what that looked like during the early years, and what it looks like now. Pretty fascinating. In this conversation between

0:30Lauren and Lanette, I think you'll glean a lot of what we can learn when it comes to maintaining and creating a great relationship in an open adoption situation. I loved listening to their conversation as I edited and we know that you'll learn a lot from this episode. So we'll jump to the conversation with Lauren and Lanette.

1:00We are here on the podcast with Lauren. Lauren, thank you so much for being here with us. Yeah thanks. I'm excited to be a part of this. Can you start off by sharing a bit about who you are? So hello to all the listeners. My name is Lauren. I'm 35 years old. I'm from Hershey, Pennsylvania. Born and raised in this area. Lived in Philadelphia for 10 years with my husband and then kind of relocated back to this area a couple years ago after we had children. I'm a

1:33physician assistant in gastroenterology, hepatology. That's my specialty and I previously was a physician assistant in critical care hospital medicine at a local hospital. And so that's what I do and I work full-time and I'm extremely passionate about being a PA. And we have three children. We have a two-year-old twins, boy-girl twins, Teddy and Ruby and a five-year-old daughter named Charlie. Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah and we have a dog. We have an English bulldog, Willow.

2:05Oh that's cute. I love all of the names. You know we've actually been to Hershey. I love like we just went to Hershey Chocolate World. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah and then we've been out from there. I don't think it's very close but we've been to Shippensburg too. Oh yeah that's like maybe an hour, 15 minutes. Yeah so I'm from like I'm from like 10 minutes from from Hershey. Yeah. Nobody knows the name.

2:36It's like Anvil, Lebanon area but nobody knows what those towns are so we literally tell everybody Hershey. I mean that's yeah that's not from Pennsylvania but essentially like it's it's basically Hershey. We have ever if you live in this area you have a season pass to Hershey Park and the whole like yes it's iconic. It's fun. It's a nice area to live. That's awesome. It is beautiful there from what I've seen. It is yeah. Very cool and you're a PA. That's really really awesome. I'm a PA. Yep. Yep. I specialize in gastroenterology and

3:07and hepatology which is like liver disease. Yeah. Wow. That's really interesting. Yeah. I went to school at Jefferson which is a medical school in Philadelphia. It's like a pretty big Jefferson Thomas Jefferson University. It's a pretty like renowned hospital and people travel from all over the world to go to this hospital so it's they have Will's Eye which is like the number one eye institute in the United States and yeah. Anyway so I'm proud of my career. I love my career and now I work for the VA so I work with veterans. Okay. Wow. That

3:39sounds really rewarding and fulfilling. Yeah it is. It definitely is. Yep. It's amazing. All right. Well can you share a bit about your connection to adoption? All right. So I became pregnant when I was about 15. Just like kind of you know got into the wrong things. I was a really good student and you know but I

4:14have an older sister who was going through like some mental health issues at the time. She was like away at college and she went to Berkeley which is like a music school. Berkeley College of Music in Boston which is like a pretty famous music college and so she was at school in Berkeley and she had had like some mental health issues at school and I think kind of the focus was on my sister who's like seven years older than me and just started hanging around the wrong people and ended up meeting someone who was much older than me and got pregnant.

4:50Yeah basically met someone older than me. It wasn't really a boyfriend situation. Wasn't someone that was like you know that I went to high school with or anything and I got pregnant and really didn't know kind of like what to do at the time and you know my initial I thought maybe I'll just have an abortion nobody will know about it. My parents won't know about it. I come from a Catholic family. I went to Catholic school. So not that I felt like my

5:24parents were going to you know I knew that I knew they'd be supportive but it's not something that I was like running home to tell them right so and they had a lot going on with my dealing with my sister's mental health issues so I thought you know what if I just have an abortion and I just don't tell anybody and then just continue with my life and then I just like prayed about it. I don't know I can't really like explain I can't really like explain what happened. I'm not really I mean I have to admit I don't follow really Catholicism anymore.

5:57I've kind of gotten away from the Catholic Church a little bit but I am spiritual and I do pray the rosary like I that's something that I still like as much as I don't I don't go to mass anymore anything like that it's something that I still find dear to my heart it's just like a meditative prayer to me but I am spiritual and I just and I prayed and like I woke up the next morning and I was like you're gonna put this baby for adoption and like no one had ever told me about adoption my friends nobody I I now my parents had at this point I

6:30had known there they had known a couple days before they found out that I was pregnant and they were like okay well we'll just do whatever we have to do to help you like they weren't they had never mentioned adoption I don't know anybody that's adopted like nothing you know there's I had no familiarity with it I woke up and was like I'm gonna put this baby for adoption I'm someone can benefit from this and I don't know I just had this idea that came over me so I told my parents and they were like adoption okay like where did you even

7:03hear about this and I was like I don't know I just woke up and this idea came to me that like maybe I should play some places baby for adoption so my mom is a was a nurse at a hospital and I think she like knew some social workers there got in touch with like a social worker at the hospital that was like hey do you know any adoption agencies because there's a labor and delivery unit on the at this local hospital and she recommended adoptions from the heart which is an adoption agency based in Lancaster Pennsylvania they might have

7:33other ones but one of them is the one that I worked with was in Lancaster and she said she knew this really good social worker so I said okay I met with this social worker her name was Jen she was so wonderful to me and my family and you know she can just walk me through the process of like and I also kind of told her the things that I was looking for I wanted to pick the family I wanted to be a part of naming my child and I wanted an open adoption and I didn't

8:05really know what that meant you know I was like about to turn I think I had turned 16 about a month after I had my daughter so I was basically like 15 16 years old like definitely limited insight into like this process right yeah just like from a maturity standpoint so she basically was like well you look at profiles and you can watch videos of families and that's kind of how it's done and then you I think you could decide if you wanted local do you want

8:38another state there's all kinds of like different you know are you open to like LGBTQ families things like that and so I had picked a husband and wife and I can remember where they were from I don't believe they had other children but they were older and that was a common theme that I found is that a lot of adoptive families in these profiles were like older like not old but like 40s 50s and some of them yeah and I had didn't have an issue but it just was like a common

9:09theme and I think looking back I didn't understand that but obviously now I you know it makes sense to me but at the time I was like I don't understand you know I just kind of this is a whole new world I didn't really understand yeah and quick question do you think that made it hard to choose because there was such an age disparity I think there was because I didn't I don't know if I imagine someone that was like in their 20 I don't know what I thought that I was gonna see honestly a lot of them looked like my parents like at the time my parents were probably my parents would have been I mean this was 18 years ago

9:44my parents were probably in their 40s do you know what I mean like I think that's what one of the issues was is that the people that I was looking at these pictures like looked like my mom and dad and I was like wait these are like people that would be like grandparents why is this you know I just kind of didn't but there was a lovely couple that I picked and I think I told the adoption agency that was interested in meeting this couple and then someone also picked them she came back to me and said another girl had just picked them and and so I felt really like disheartened by that because I felt like and then I came across this couple their names were Kristen and James they

10:19lived in Virginia Beach at the time he was stationed in the military that he was in the Navy he's a Jag which is a lawyer for the Navy he's an officer in the Navy and she was a teacher I believe at the time an elementary school teacher and they look they were in their 30s were in their early 30s yeah and I thought they looked like a really nice couple and they had these like two retrievers in their pictures and I think they even had a video and I said I want

10:51to meet them so I ended up meeting them and we met it like a restaurant in Lancaster and like from Hershey that's probably like 30 minutes it's not very far and she actually is from Lancaster it's kind of like a neat connection so like she was from Lancaster and when I met them it felt like I had like known them my whole life it was the strangest thing I never like I felt like such a connection to them and really open with them and I met them with my mom and dad I think we had lunch or something and we just kind of you know got to know each

11:25other and then we kind of did that same thing maybe once a month or something or every two months we kind of met somewhere talk talked about like what are our expectations what are questions that I have yeah so I ended up choosing they did not have children they she had she was told she had severe endometriosis and she had multiple surgeries for I guess scar tissue damage and told she had you know infertility issues as a result of this so they had been trying

11:59to have children for ten years they I think they met in college and got married right out of college they were together for already even though they were only like 30 or 31 they were already they already been married for like eight or nine years or something so they've been trying for quite some time and so then I you know we kind of agreed on like an open adoption we didn't know what that would look like and they agreed that we could choose a name together and so her name is Emma Olivia and I so Emma's the name that they like

12:31and Olivia was a name that I like so that's her middle name and and so yeah so then another kind of thing that we agreed on was you know when I had the baby in the hospital like I really wanted to spend like two or three days with just the baby which is just Emma in my family and have them come on the last day when it's time for me to leave so that that whenever it was all in agreement with it they were very like you know and I don't know if this is like

13:02a common theme with people that adopt but they were very like almost just grateful to be not that they were like willing to be like whatever demands I didn't have demands but like I think they just felt so grateful to be part of like oh my gosh this this girl chose us like we should just I don't know if that's like a common thing that adoptive parents feel and I'm sure there are some adoptive parents that really have other opinions about it they don't mean it necessarily want that much contact or they don't they want it in

13:33their child they don't want to have that you know but they they didn't feel like that they were just so like this is a collaborative process here this is I are doing together and this is not something that we're like making you do that we are I felt really like and that's what I was looking for I told myself I was not gonna put my daughter for adoption unless I felt like it was the right thing with the right people and I felt like I was being respected and I totally was and you know that made it I think that made it all that much you

14:08know not easier but it made the process a little bit I mean less straining and it could be in different situations yeah so you know so she was born and I had my time with her in the hospital with my parents and like my grandparents and like everybody was kind of there like the father was not in her life declined like really any wouldn't fill out like medical you can fill out medical history

14:40forms so that you know a case anything genetic rusted in your family if you could that knowledge could be passed on and you know he had declined any like any of that and so there is no involved there was no involvement there is no involvement which is actually probably for the better but um so yeah so then on the last you know had her in the hospital in the second third day like they came and that was obviously like I never want to have to relive that it that again in my life that was like horrible but um you know through time and they're

15:15going to a therapist and my parents are very supportive people they were there for me like through all of this you know like my dad went to like my childbirth classes with me you know because I didn't have you know I was young I didn't have anything so yeah they were really supportive and I started seeing a therapist just to like process everything because it's such a strange you know it's so something you can't describe to people that have not

15:45experienced it like carrying a baby and then you know all this time and this connection and then you just leave a hospital and you don't have a baby to take home and you know it's like then it's hormonal right it's all these other like things that are playing into these postpartum hormone changes and you just kind of you know I went back to high school like probably I don't know two months later I want to say and it just was like it was a weird it was a

16:19hard adjustment you know because it's like I didn't feel like a teenager anymore yeah after going through that hugely adult experience yeah I mean not like took my maturity level to like zero to sixty like like fifteen years old to like a twenty five year old in like nine months maybe even older than that like I like it really kind of and for the better honestly but but nonetheless I returned back to high school and I didn't feel like a high school student

16:49like everybody else you know I was like well you know it just was a it was a hard transition so then so then they took Emma back to Virginia Beach and I got pictures like every all the time pictures initially when I put her for adoption I just wanted pictures I didn't want any other communication I didn't want to talk to them on the phone I didn't I just think like I was just sorting through my life and I didn't really you know and then the older she

17:23got I think she was four and that was the first time I met her only because that they had offered all the time like do you want us to bring her to Pennsylvania do you want and I just really wasn't ready and then I went away to college when I was you know obviously I graduated high school then I went to college in Westchester and so then I was preoccupied with college life you know and and so then it just kind of worked out with it she was like four we met in

17:53Lancaster at Kristen's parents house and it was great and so then like over the years you know we've had more contact they they're a military family so they have moved around a lot they lived in Virginia Beach then they lived in Gig Harbor which is in Washington State and then they were in Washington DC which is the closest they've ever lived and then when they live there I used to drive down much more frequent because it was only like two hours away so it was great I would even just drive down for the day see one of her soccer games and then

18:24come home that's cool and now they live in Florida so so the traveling around has been hard but and she's 18 now which is crazy and she's about to leave for college in about a month and it's just all so crazy I could talk about this forever but you know that's kind of like that's like the sum of this story and in

18:54the meantime they got pregnant oh wow so they adopted her and then they got pregnant six weeks later six weeks yeah wow she took Emma for her like two-week pediatrician appointment and her pediatrician not her GYN was like you should really think about going on birth control I know a lot of people that have adopted and have gotten pregnant like it's common like it's more common than you think and Kristen was like no way we've been trying for ten years I've had

19:25so many surgeries I've never been on birth control there's no way I can get pregnant and then four weeks later she was pregnant so crazy then they got pregnant again a couple years later after that so Emma has a brother and they are ten months apart and then she has a sister who is probably like four years younger than them I think they got pregnant four years later it's so wild so interesting which is great because you know looking back like I didn't want her to be an only child I thought that's what I wanted when I was looking for

19:58adoptive parents like when I was looking through profiles I was like I don't think I'd pick somebody who has biological children because I don't want her to feel left out yet like I didn't know that I was you know I don't think I would not think that now but I look at back then I was 16 I was like yeah someone you know but now that she has siblings it's like she's really close to her siblings so it's just made you know I don't know it's I'm really happy that they ended up getting pregnant and now she has a big family so beautiful so you said that you

20:33were hoping for an open adoption from the start but you didn't really have very many connections to the adoption world before all of this happened so like what was your like expectation when you were hoping for an open adoption what were you kind of picturing in the beginning I just wanted to know that she was okay I said to the adoption the social worker the adoption agency because I think she posed the question do you want because I think it mattered who whose profile you chose because some parents and weren't open to that oh

21:03right right and I and I think that that's a you have to there is a certain level of acceptance and like that you have to take on as a thing as an adoptive parent to have an open adoption because you could get somebody you could get somebody crazy I'm sorry I think you probably could I'm serious like I I have I mean what if you had someone that has poor boundaries and like now they know where you live I'm serious like you don't you don't that's a very trusting thing and I think that that takes a lot on the adoptive parents shoulder to be

21:39willing to say hey we're open to an open adoption because it's a lot you don't know I could have been crazy I'm not but like I think that that's always a possibility and so I didn't I always thought that like that's totally fine if there's adopted parents I want to close adoption I think that's you have to know what type what you can handle because there's a certain level of so I think when I when I talked to the social worker that's how she kind of phrased it do you want to look at profiles for people that are interested open adoption

22:10or do you want people there close it up and she kind of explained the difference and the way this adoption agency worked I think for the first two years every all the communication went through the agency no communication went through do you know I think that was probably like a boundary maybe like to see if there's like issues so basically they would mail the pictures to the adoption agency and the adoption agency was sent to me yeah that's kind of how it worked and then they said after like this time period then that's up that's up to we leave it

22:43in your court like we lead up to the active parents and you to make an agreement on you know because she said sometimes people think they want to open adoption and they come to find out they don't you know whether it's on the birth parent side or the adoption side I think sometimes you don't know maybe until you start the process I just know that I told her that I need to know that my child's okay yeah I can't sleep at night if I put it put her up for adoption and I never hear from her again like I need to know that she's safe and loved and

23:14is developing you know I just I need that and if that can't happen that's fine but then I won't choose adoption I'll just have just decide to raise this child I mean yeah I think like a hard like I think more young girls or just women in general might choose adoption if they knew that that was an option I think there's a lot of stigma around adoption that it's this you know you don't know where your child goes and you never hear from them and it's out of

23:47your control and I think there probably are situations where that might be the case but I also wish that people would know that it doesn't have to be like that yeah you can have it it's control as you want it to be essentially I mean if you find the right adoptive parents that are willing to you know talk to you about your wishes yeah yeah I really appreciated the parts where you were sharing about how you had these expectations for the hospital and you

24:20wanted to be a part of naming and you had these hopes and desires and people listen to you right yeah so do you feel like yeah was that the agency as well as the adoptive parents or how do you think yeah no I think it was both of them I had a really good experience with this agency I don't know any other experiences with yeah I thought the social worker they worked with was really wonderful that's yeah I definitely don't have any and I don't think Christina James ever had any like issues either but like I said that's like my only experience so I

24:53don't know you know I don't know about other situations but yeah that I did have a good experience and I felt listen to I never felt pressured oh no no no I never felt I never now sometimes I wonder if that's because you know I have a supportive family and I like I think that that could change if you are from a background that might not have as much emotional support and parents in the

25:27home that support you do you know what I mean like I think that that's true I think that could be different if you maybe you're on your own trying to figure this out maybe you come from an unstable home like low socioeconomic background like I think that that can impact how your adoption is and how what agency use like I think that that kind of can all I think so yeah for sure yeah well and I loved that your dad went with you to appointments and yeah he was like that's

26:01amazing I think my dad had so my dad had a really hard time accepting it initially really hard you know and then I think it made our relationship stronger because I just think he realized like this is a situation my daughter needs me like there's really no other what is the other option like this you know and so my parents were both supportive like the entire time so then my parents are very close to Emma they called she called them grandma grandma grandma Cindy

26:31grandpa Jeff I love that for my dad and they and so to her siblings yeah my mom's you know sorry Chris Emma's brother and sister call my parents grandma and grandpa my parents were just down there visiting them they just came back a couple days I love that so much so we've been able to have that with some of our kids and it's the very best where I mean biological grandparents our grandparents like to all of them and embrace and it's beautiful it's so incredible like they've been close so when I didn't have contact with Emma for the first four years my mom did that entire time she would go visit them

27:06because that was the first time my mom was a grandparent like ever like my sister doesn't have children and obviously she only had me and my sister so there's no other so she would go there with my aunt Lynn who's my dad's sister and they would go visit together and they I just wasn't ready to go see her at the time but my mom did and you know I think that really grew like a close bond and yeah so beautiful I love that it is and it sounds like you all just always felt

27:38like that door was open and yeah I think so I think it's had its times I think that now we're in like a bit of a transition period with her going to college and I think that's been hard on me I mean so there's been a couple tough transition one was when I got pregnant with my daughter so that was hard for very hard for her so she would have been so let's see she's 18 she would have

28:09been 13 probably and that was very difficult for her to process just because she started having the Kristen called me and said she was but she found out that I was pregnant she was crying why the Lauren is keeping this baby and why didn't she keep me what's wrong with me you know so there was a lot of that and then also me I had a lot of this was the first time I was pregnant that I had a lot of like shame surrounding my pregnancy because the

28:40first month pregnant had a lot of shame because you're 16 you're it's not the ideal situation so I think I carried that shame again I felt bad enjoying it didn't you know even though my it was too much it wasn't like totally different I married to now you know like yeah similar situation it was like you know it was like a planned pregnancy but there definitely was like a lot of shame

29:11and guilt from my own perspective actually I had it again with the twins too I had like the same like I felt bad you know I don't know it's just a comp sometimes you don't know why you experiences emotions and how they're tied to adoption one because there's not I don't have anybody to talk to there's no roadmap right there's no like I have a therapist that I talked to about it but you know there's no roadmap to say well this is how it's gonna be everyone's adoption experience is different and sometimes the emotions can be confusing

29:43and you don't always know why you feel that way yeah yeah you're not the only person I've heard say though that pregnancy after placement is really hard yeah it didn't expect that and then when I felt that way I was like confused you don't know I felt like I couldn't enjoy it or yeah you know the other thing too is I always so I always wanted to adopt even though I I can get pregnant no issues we have twins we have there's no fertility problems but I always wanted

30:17to adopt I felt like I wanted to like give back I wanted to do like foster care not yeah private adoption I wanted to do like fostering prop or like you know adopt someone out of foster the foster care that's what I that's what I wanted to do and so then when you like get pregnant and you there's just a lot of like emotions with that because then I'm like well maybe that's not my plan maybe that's not my journey maybe that's for somebody else you know I I just feel such a strong connection to adoption that like I wanted to continue that in

30:48my you know continue to my life in another way and it like yeah yeah that's a something I think about often hmm yeah so I love that you have a therapist that you talked to about this yeah and then also when Emma was having a hard time processing your next pregnancy you guys were able to talk about that too it sounds like there was dialogue going yeah yeah yeah I've written her letters

31:21before um you know on her 16th birthday I wrote her a letter talking about how you know this is the same age that I was when I was pregnant with you like so it brought a lot of like emotions you know cuz like at this time it's and I couldn't imagine like yeah I'm a 16 she's like a baby you know like you know you imagine like this is I was pregnant with you at this same stage of my life going to high school you know and just kind of talked about that in a letter to her like how it just can change your life and you know and she's changed all of our lives

31:54for the better and so even if it's not over like the phone we can write each other letters and kind of communicate that way you know if you want to say something that's so beautiful yeah so you mentioned how you wish people understood that open adoption is an option what else do you wish people understood or knew about adoption oh well I think um one is I think the

32:27dialogue and the terminology around adoption like roles can be skewed now nothing that's anyone's fault per se I think it's just not really talked about like well you're her real mom you know like things like that and I know what they mean biological mom right so I think that there I wish that there was a better way to talk about like terminology or like what is she what is she see how many people have said to me what are your parents what do you guys tell her that you are do you tell her that you're her sister like her aunt or

32:58something I'm like no how confusing and horrifying is that that's not but I but and people are well-intentioned you know I don't I don't you know I don't think that it comes from a place of I think it's somewhat it's ignorance not by their own it's just there's not a lot of like discussion around it unless you're an immersed in that world so that's like one thing I'd want people to know is like there is a language in terminology around adoption and I don't know I would

33:29like don't assume that like we tell people that like were there kids aunt or something yeah you know that's one thing and then I think another thing is um I don't know I would want people to know I would encourage discussions about adoption I like to talk about my adoption with Emma like I think it's I think it's shed some of the shame around it because I think there can be shame

34:00when people don't talk to you about it maybe not forever that's just me personally there I'm sure there are people that they put their child for adoption and they they don't I actually the fact I know someone like a really good friend of my cousin who I'm also close with she had a baby in high school put up for adoption and like never like does not want to talk about it and this is like 25 years ago does not want to talk about it has no it's like it had really like caused a lot of pain in her life so she's someone that really doesn't

34:33we know so I guess it's case by case but like personally for me I do enjoy talking about it I like when people ask questions and then really my hope is that it educates people one time I had someone reach out to me this is a couple years ago someone on Facebook that I kind of was an acquaintance of and she had said her younger cousin was pregnant and thinking about adoption and she was wondering if I would talk to her about it she had had some questions I think similar situation was a young girl in high school didn't really know what to

35:04do was thinking she might want to just keep the baby or you know decide to parent and I ended up talking to her I don't know what happened you know what came of it but I still think it's beneficial that she you know got to hear from someone who had a positive experience and I was able to answer her questions because I think that she went into it thinking they're gonna take my baby away I'm gonna have no control over where my baby's placed you know I think these are these are not things like in it these are real thoughts that people I think it's probably why most young girls either have abortions or decide to

35:38become a young mom because I don't think that there's any real who is there to talk to them about adoption right like who is there I don't know I mean short of like having a supportive parent they might even if they do have a supportive parent they might not think about adoption yeah especially if there is this negative perceived notion of what it looks like that's probably not accurate in most cases right right for sure and right and I think that there's cultural differences too I think some like culturally like the baby stays in

36:13our family or would it like yeah I think I think it can it has many different facets of how it can manifest and what the reasons are that adoption is or is not discussed you know when you're young but yeah yeah so do you have any thoughts on what you think openness versus a lack of openness might look like down the long road like long term yeah so your experience and others you've seen or know um so I can't say what I know because I don't really know

36:48anybody else that's which is kind of crazy I don't really know anybody in my own circle in my own family I don't know anybody that's adopted or put their child place her child for adoption or even like I work with someone that has an adoptive child I think but it's not something I well I do to share a story that I'll share a crazy story then about when I got into a school Jefferson has to do with adoption but you know in the last so that's kind of something I'm

37:19always figuring out is like how is my openness going to change with Emma and that's actually something that's been kind of difficult on me because so I typically our goal for the last five years is we see each other once a year I go to Florida I take Charlie with me and we fly there we stay there for like five days because like Charlie like loves Emma and it's the strangest thing they see each other once a year but it's like it's like no time has passed it is and

37:49there's people that Charlie sees every week that she doesn't like connect with like you know what I mean yeah he sees Emma and like asked about her all the time when are we gonna go to Florida mom are we go back to the beach and see Emma that's so sweet so I really tried to like she has seen Emma has seen Charlie since like she was born since she was a couple months old so in the so our goal is in the last year last couple years to get together at least once a year and so for this year we haven't been able to get together last time I saw Emma was April of last year and just with like my schedule because I

38:23work full-time I have three children like yeah it was very busy so it's hard for me to like take off you know and just fly to Florida like you know on a whim and she's very busy she is like the head of her soccer team and she plays like club league soccer so when she's not in school she's traveling for soccer everywhere so we haven't been able to connect this year my parents just went to her graduation and they were there for five days and I didn't go I think some of it was because I knew that it wasn't really gonna get to spend time

38:55with her there because it was such a crazy you know she has all this family flying in from out of state for her party and I just like didn't want to be when I go there like to spend time with her yeah that makes sense right I know but so I didn't want to go down there and be disappointed not because of her but I didn't want to be like I didn't want to set myself up to be let down like and I could I could see it kind of happening and so I decided I wasn't gonna go and we just haven't been able to make it connect and like I've been very frustrated by that and then I start thinking what if I never see her again

39:32she's going to college I remember how it was in college I all I cared about in college is my friends you know I mean I I worked we partied we went to school like that's all we did we didn't I wasn't checking in to see to visit family like other than my you know your priorities are shifted and so like I'm I'm just going through like a bit of a our relationship is changing and it's like bothering me you know and something that I need to work through and it's confusing to me and I think it's confusing to her because we text each

40:03other and we both miss each other so much and we say that to each other like on text like when I she graduated Friday they her mom sent me pictures and like I texted Emma I was like congratulations like so happy enjoy your graduation she was like miss you so much I love you I can't wait to see you like it just is so we're kind of like in the future I hope we go back to at least see each other once a year because like that's fine I think we both are agree like once a year is like fine for us yeah I think there was times where we were

40:36seeing each other like when I was in my to stay at their house yeah like for days and I think maybe some people are fine with that but I found it to be like a little bit of boundary issues like I don't I know that you're good parents but I don't necessarily need to see your day-to-day parenting because I don't always agree with some things and they're not like they're not like crazy things like you like it might just be like well you didn't make her empty the dishwasher and I would have made you know what I mean yeah I put I placed your

41:07for adoption for a reason I'm not your parent anymore like you know what I mean and I I I stepped back from that because that was our level of openness I would stay in their home like and I have come to realize like that doesn't serve me well you end up getting upset and so now I've read an Airbnb and we just like get a house on the beach and then Emma will just like come to the house and I'll go to their house too but like I don't sleep over there yeah I think that's really amazing that you recognized that that wasn't working well for you yeah

41:39old system yeah I don't know if like other adoptive parents do that do they let their but I mean we've done that and we've been cool with it but they have that perspective I mean I don't they've never told us that they don't like staying but but I think that's a really interesting way to look at it that's I think that I like never like I said I think everyone's different I think there's probably people that it doesn't bother them but I think when I keep became a parent six years ago I think that I just like I had my own

42:11introspection into my own parents parenting do you know what I mean I never had thought about that I thought about that more in my life than when I became my own when I became you know a parent myself and I just realized like this is not I know that she's well-loved and taken care of and spoiled and all these things and I don't need to see it because I don't always agree with you know what I mean yeah and it's not like a big thing like yeah you're not like upset about it but it's also no well to see it right it's like I need to like I

42:42need to like come and visit and have my own space so I can spend all day with you they go home and sleep in my own bed yeah and your family issues can like stay in your house and I you know what I mean yeah they know that I've told them that like I've just get my own house and now that I bring Charlie there it's like so I'm just kind of like navigating the waters and like trying to figure out you know what is the right level of openness yeah and you know one thing I told myself and I don't I don't always know if I do I need to have a

43:13conversation with Emma about this or is that not the right thing to do is like I never want Emma to grow up and look back and say all of this was forced on me and I didn't have a say in it that's my one of my biggest fears I don't want her to say like those times you came to visit or like I didn't want that I was happy with my family in Florida like I didn't I didn't want you coming to see me because that was whatever confusing made me upset you know that's my biggest

43:46fear so that holds me back from like engaging too much does that make sense like yeah I don't know how to like how do I sort that out you know I don't and I don't want to put her in a position where the decisions on her because she's just she's like a child still I mean I don't know how to like navigate these waters and there's at times and there's not really anybody that can tell me what to do that's really challenging so yeah how to support her and what she wants

44:19or needs but also what does she want and need does she know right yeah that's challenging yeah right and then the other aspect is another my second fear is like I don't want her to look back and say you didn't have enough contact with me I felt abandoned I felt like you were there for me it's such like a I'm torn between am I doing enough or am I not doing you know doing too much you know yeah that's a hard so that's that's one of the challenges I think that's a huge challenge so do you have any advice for working

44:53through that I know that you're still in the thick of it so I'm working someone can give me advice that's honestly no I I'm still kind of working through that and that's the only thing you learn about adoption things are always changing yeah I never thought you know that you put the problems that Emma had or not the problems but but the adoption things you face when they're a child is different than when they're a preteen and then when they're a teenager you know it's like

45:23she never asked about her biological father until a couple years ago and then that was a big thing for like several years like where is he where his pitch you know I never you're learning new things all the time and you're encountering new things all the time that it's I don't know it's like I'm this is like a journey in your finding things out as you go or you're navigating the wild yeah I have been so surprised by how much I don't know all the time like I feel like there's always so much to learn

45:53and I kind of don't expect it ever stops at this point but it does yeah I agree and maybe that's okay because you're continuing to learn you're open to learn I'm open to you know learning and um yeah it's definitely an ongoing journey well before we wrap up you did mention that you had a crazy adoption story that you want to know okay I'll just be really quick okay so I'll keep this brief so to get into PA school it's pretty

46:23competitive you know I don't typically they accept anywhere from like it depends what school you go to but maybe if you go to a larger school they might accept like 70 students a year while I went to Jefferson they accept 30 students per year and I don't know the number of people that apply but it's in the either hundreds or thousands so these schools are very competitive and you you know the applications to get in and anyways all the requirements that you need to get into these schools is a lot so typically people don't get accepted to PA school in their first time that's

46:53like pretty known and it's okay but I didn't get accepted my first time or my second time I think some of it was like just I just wasn't prepared you have to be so prepared interviews are daunting they're hours long the applications have to be pristine your recommendations have to be pristine from other physicians like and every time I did it it got better and better right and so I said to myself this is the last time and my school of choice was Jefferson I had applied to and that's the thing they tell you to apply to all kinds of schools because you're not

47:23going to get into just one so apply to several so my top school was Jefferson that's where I really wanted to go because I lived in Philadelphia at the time and I had an interview there and the woman that interviewed me her last question was what is the what something like what is the what is one of the most important things that's happened in your what's it what's something in your life that's happened to you that's made the most impact on your life something something along those lines

47:53and normally like I don't just tell people about like my adoption just like people that don't know me you know it's not really like it's you have to figure out when is it appropriate to time to bring this up and does the person that's here it's a very sensitive thing yeah well I just felt in the moment like I'm just gonna tell her like one of the biggest thing that changed my life is placing a child for adoption when I was 16 years older than all these things I told her about you know had contact with her and it was a good relationship and and I knew that I wanted to

48:23go to college it but I you know wanted her to have a family a good family to raise her and I wouldn't it wasn't able to provide that and then this doctor was like do you see this picture on the wall of this little boy and I was like yeah and she said that's my adoptive son and she was like we have an option and I was like crying and she starts crying and then like they sent me a letter like a week later saying they got I got you know admitted to their school I'm not saying it I just was like such like a

48:53what a like a connection you know I just so crazy that's really beautiful wow and it you're right it's so hard to know when it's a good time to share that because you don't want to share some things so tender and special to you with someone who's not going to treat it as something special right in this case obviously I felt like a she's a geriatrician typically geriatricians are like warm I don't know I find them to be like that that's

49:23that profession of doctors I find to be like pretty warm I don't know what price they take care of elderly people so they're she just had a I wouldn't have shared if I didn't think that it was someone that was going to like understand or be welcoming to it but I kind of got this after talking to her for like 40 minutes that that it might be a good you know and really in all honesty it was the truth you know it wasn't just an answer to it really wasn't I didn't I didn't have anything else to say that could have that could have matched up to that and so

49:53I felt like it was the right you know that you asked the question this is the truth this is the real answer that's so beautiful wow my goodness well Lauren I have loved talking to you is there anything else you want to talk about on there yeah so I would say that if somebody ever has a question at open adoption or if they're like even if it's from a birth mother or a adoptive parent or even someone that's seeking to become an adoptive parent like I would be more than happy to discuss

50:23them or answer questions or not that I'm like super knowledgeable any of this but you've had you've had this open adoption for years now and yeah I mean she's 18 like yeah for sure yeah and it's um yeah and you saw like my pictures I sent so that's Emma's graduation picture from like last week and then the picture with the three little kids and that's me and my husband and our three children and then I think I sent you a picture of Emma and Charlie when we went to visit them last year super yeah yeah it is it's a wonderful

50:53thing anytime I tell people they always say they tell me it's a beautiful story and like what a thing that you've done for someone and I don't always look at it like that I just knew that I could give back to somebody and make makes me positive out of getting pregnant at a young age you know I was like I can turn this around to make this into something positive for someone someone that's looking to start a family that otherwise isn't able to unless they adopt and I was able to do that that's really all I wanted to do is all about

51:23selflessness you know that's like if I can give any piece of advice it's sometimes the journey is not about you it's about putting not always but putting you know I sometimes put Emma's needs above my own sometimes what is best for her right not neglecting my own you know but but it in a healthy way not in a place of love and what can I do that's going to better her life and right so like anytime Emma has questions I'm here to answer them because this is about Emma this is about answering the questions that she has it's not about me and if it's uncomfortable for me to talk about it's going to be uncomfortable it's about helping her not feel any shame or surrounding being adopted and

52:14just feeling like there is endless amounts of love and that adoption just adds to the love that doesn't take away from it and doesn't subtract from it and that people are here to answer questions and support you and love you and that's kind of that's how I look at it. So beautiful. Well Lauren thank you so very much for being here today. Thank you so much this was great.

52:47Well thanks again so much to Lauren for being on this episode of the open adoption project we really appreciate her willingness to open, open up and share. And I, I feel like I learned a lot. Yeah, I loved chatting with her it was so much fun she's just got a really great mind where I feel like. She thinks things through in a way and articulates them in a way that helps you really understand where she's coming from. And yeah I really appreciated what we heard from her just a minute ago about keeping our focus and adoption on the adoptee.

53:25We live in this day and age where everything is all about self care and self care is important we are definitely not saying it's not. But in adoption, there are oftentimes where we need to prioritize taking care of the adoptee and their needs as biological parents and as adoptive parents both. For sure. Yeah, yeah I mean I think even from the very beginning of the episode she was sharing like, I only want to make, I only want to make this decision, if I know that it's going to be the best thing for her.

53:59Yeah, and, and as traumatic and difficult as it was for Lauren to make that decision she knew that it was what what was going to be better. Yeah, she felt like yeah she felt like that was the better option for her daughter. And it's hard right it's really hard to prioritize someone's needs like that but she's also practicing self care she's going to therapy all of those things but, but I think it's just not talked about

54:31enough right now that we do sometimes need to be focusing on making sure we're taking care of others especially those who we've put in a position where they need a little more care. Yeah. Another thing that I am still thinking about but I think I'm learning from Lauren's advice or from her experience was when she was talking about how, you know, her daughter's 18 years old now, and she's trying to figure out this balance of how much of my involved.

55:05And, you know, she kind of talked about. I don't want her to think why are you there so much or why weren't you there enough. And so for me as an adoptive parent, I think it's just highlighting that we need to be really open in our conversation with our kids about the relationships we have with their birth families and ask Do you need more. Is this too much right now. Yeah, well and we've talked to other birth parents who have said they don't really feel comfortable saying if they want more contact.

55:36And so yes I agree we need to be checking in engaging how everyone's doing. Yeah. That's really important. And then also, as she talked about transitions into adulthood with open adoption. It did remind me of Dakota's episode if you have not listened to that one. I think it's a good cross reference right here. Yeah, Dakota is an adoptee and he grew up in an open adoption. And he talked about how one of the challenges for him and his open adoption was when the ball moved from his parents court of they took care of everything and made sure that they had contact with his birth mom and all of that.

56:12And then he moved into his court where it was up to him. Yeah, figure out how that works and to navigate that. And so, just something to think about like he has a great relationship with his birth mom and it's all good. But he did say that was a change that he wasn't anticipating. Yeah, I think we're, I mean, we're trying to navigate that a little bit with a child who's going into her teen years and has a phone that can communicate with her birth mom and there's, there's definitely interaction and connection that we are encouraging but there's also this authentic desire to have that connection to and like, forge it yourself. Yeah. And I mean, I think there are times where they reach out to one another without us really being in the picture obviously

56:58when they don't really need our prompts. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's I think a good balance, good, good boundaries. But I think that that will help set up a successful future in managing that relationship. I think so. So again, Lauren, thank you so much for sharing with us. We're really, really appreciative of all that you were able to help us learn. Yes, thank you so much for listening to this episode. Just a couple of quick little reminders. If you would like to subscribe to our newsletter, you can do that.

57:28You can go to open adoption project.org to do that. And it's a fun little monthly newsletter. There's a little bit of extra content there and our friend Alicia helps us with that. She works so hard on it. It's really fun. So subscribe to that if you would like. And if you know of anyone or if you are interested in getting some help with looking at your DNA and finding biological family with DNA, then Devonnie from a few episodes ago is doing a project with us where we're hoping to help a couple of adoptees with finding some of their family.

58:01So if you're interested in that, you can also go to open adoption project.org. I think I'm going to put in a shameless plug and also ask that if you've been enjoying the podcast, you feel like it's been something that's helping you learn or navigate adoption or the adoption community better. Please jump on to Apple podcasts and give us a five star rating and leave a comment. The more ratings we have, the more comments that we have, we can reach people better when they're searching for a podcast to listen to. Yes, that would be the best present little shameless plug. I love it. You could also do that on audible if you can't do it on Apple podcasts.

58:38Awesome. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project. We'll be back in your feed in a few weeks.

59:08Thank you.

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