Adoption Themes in “Elf”

0:00Welcome to the special episode of the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 65. We're the Nelsons. I'm Shaun. And I'm Lanette. Today we are excited to bring you the first of a series of episodes about adoption in the media. So we'll be discussing adoption themes in the film Elf, and our discussion will be hosted by us but also led by adoptee Melaina Rogers. We've had her on the podcast before and we love her. We're excited to have her with us and we also have an audience

0:36in our Zoom room that also will be participating at times in the discussion. Like Lanette mentioned, this is the first of several times we're going to do this, probably every couple months. So if you ever want to join us for one of these, we do a live Zoom call. You're welcome to join. You can see our website at openadoptionproject.org or you can follow us on Instagram for details as the next one comes up and other future ones. So again, this one focuses on the movie Elf. It's Christmas time

1:06and we're thinking about the holidays and all those things that keep us kind of busy. And sometimes we jump into media and watch things that maybe we kind of forget the underlying messages. So this was a fun one to look at this time of year. Yeah and it was a really interesting conversation to have also afterward with our kids and just talk about how they perceive different messages about adoption in the media and particularly in the movie Elf. So we really hope you enjoy this discussion and that it prompts some good discussions for you and your loved ones as well.

1:41We hope you all have a wonderful Christmas. We are going to cut now to our conversation about the movie Elf. Thank you everybody for being here today. We are really excited to do this. We've been talking about doing a discussion about adoption in the media for a long time and when we started thinking about how to get this started, I thought of Melana because I absolutely love her

2:12and as we started talking about it and trying to figure out what to discuss, I was like you know it's Christmas time and the movie Elf seems great and it just seems like a great movie to discuss with Melana because you are such a light and I feel like Buddy is this amazing light and I just feel like it's perfect. So I'm really happy you're here with us Melana. Thank you. No thank you and I'll totally take a compliment being Buddy the Elf. I laugh every time me and my kids watch it over the weekend and it's still like one of the best movies so I'm excited. It was really funny. I think another reason we wanted to do this is that a lot of people who

2:48aren't really directly related to adoption aren't connected with people who have adopted or are adoptees or a birth parent. They draw a lot of their perceptions from the media and so this is an opportunity to kind of chat through some of what Hollywood might portray versus reality. And maybe what other people are getting about adoption if they're not directly connected to it. Yeah right exactly. It should be fun. Yeah I'm really excited.

3:20All right so we have had some questions submitted by listeners of our podcast, followers on Instagram and we also have a few that I added because I thought that'd be good. So go ahead and we're going to start with a little clip that basically summarizes the plot of Elf. The moment where Buddy finds out that he is not an elf and just some of what comes along with that.

3:56What in the name of Sam Hill is that? Little Buddy diapers. His name is Buddy. He must have snuck into your sack at the orphanage. What do we do? So Santa had a decision to make. Fortunately when it comes to babies, Santa's a pushover. So Buddy stayed with an older elf who had always wanted a child but had been so committed to building toys he well had forgotten to to settle down. Santa? Yes yes I raised Buddy. I was his adopted father. Though Buddy grew twice as fast. He

4:34wasn't any different from the other children. Not too fast Buddy. I mean not not really. Now before we learn how to build the latest in extreme graphic chipset processors, let's recite the code of the elf shall we? Number one. Treat every day like Christmas. Number two. There's room for everyone on the nice list. Number three. The best way to spread Christmas cheer is singing loud for all to hear.

5:07Buddy I think there was something I probably should tell you. You probably should have found out a long a long time ago. I then proceeded to tell Buddy of how his father had fallen in love when he was very young with a beautiful girl named Susan Wells and how Buddy was born and put up for adoption by his mother and how she had later passed away. I told him his father had never even known that Buddy was born and most importantly I told him where

5:38his father was in a magical land called New York City. I'll always I'll always be here for you. Now go get. So after he overheard that he was human, Buddy was like in a state of shock and he had identified

6:10as an elf for as long as he could remember. So Milena as an adoptee do you feel like you connect more or less with your adoptive family and birth family and do you feel like there's added guilt and pressure there? So I feel like it's obviously okay first off why does that baby have no clothes on? Like when I rewatched it now that I'm a mom I'm like where's that child's clothes? Okay but see this is where it can get so sticky and I'm gonna preface this very first before I even get started like sharing. I am more on the positive side of adoption. There's adoptees with

6:44a lot harder stories that like to focus on the negative and so I'm just gonna say that right off the bat. It doesn't mean I haven't had hardship with my story but I like to focus on the positive a bit more because it's been such a huge blessing in my life. Okay now that I'm done with that. I don't feel like I connect more or less like I'm obviously my family. I'm gonna call my family. I mean I know for purposes they like to do adoptive and birth family but they're my family okay. I don't feel any less. I've never felt any less and kind of how like with with Buddy there's a

7:18huge difference. I mean he's like what six foot three in real life and like with elves or teeny tiny me I am an international adoptee but I've never felt any less with my whole family that's Caucasian. I've never felt any less. They've never made me feel like any different or I mean if you go in more to the movie they kind of you know talk behind his back. My family's never done that and so now that I've met my birth family again I don't feel like I'm connected to them more or less but it is very interesting to see how much similar similarities we have. I mean I'm not

7:53sure how many similarities we have and we've only ever met over the phone like over video like this over the screen and it's still crazy to see similarities that like my brothers do and my one sister like facial expressions and I've never grown up around these people. There's not as far as like added guilt and pressure. No I've never felt that from either my birth family or my family. I've never felt that. They've always been super open and honest and I've been very blessed with them welcoming me with open arms especially when my siblings had no clue about me and it could have been

8:27a real trigger for them to not talk to my birth mom anymore but I feel like maybe I don't know it's because the type of human I am but it's brought everybody a lot closer together since I have been a part of their life so yeah that's amazing yeah yeah I love that. Maybe I'll share one thought from just that scene that we watched. I know Papa Elf is a loving and caring guy right but in the end it's like oh um you want to find your origins go and so I don't know just

9:00just the portrayal for me as an adoptive parent to just remember like part of my role in this whole thing is to support my children the best that I can and if connecting with their birth family is the best thing for them and something that's going to enrich their life and be good for them then I need to go on that journey with him like I'm Papa Elf going on like the candy cane train I remember all of that yeah like I want to be the type of dad that jumps on and goes

9:31with Buddy rather than wishes him well sends him into the wild right yeah yeah no and I totally agree with that and I feel like most of the adoptive parents that I do know are the ones that follow me they're the exact same way their parent adoptive is just put in front of them but they're a parent and they want what what is best for their children no matter how their kids have come into their life it's just plain and simple yeah so so this next question comes from someone that asked us just a

10:02couple of weeks ago and I know that it was a well-intentioned question but I would love to hear your thoughts as an adoptee on this they basically wanted to know do you think transparency about an adoptee's story and family of origin is helpful or hurtful for their development they said if people can't tell that my child was adopted why should I tell anyone including the child so I'd love to hear your thoughts and what you would tell someone wondering about that well if you're watching this you just saw my facial expression it should always be known that your kids are

10:33adopted I don't care if it's white white black black Hispanic Hispanic your kids should always freaking know I don't care for me obviously it's a little different because my parents are white and I'm Hispanic but I feel like in the long run it's more hurtful there's more trust issues I know people who have not been told until they're in their 30s and it completely crumbles and breaks that relationship with their parents when honestly their parents I know thought they were doing the best thing for them but it's really not it's gonna hurt more than it's gonna help and every adoptee

11:04is different I will put like with this with finding birth families or wanting to know more about their culture some don't give a crap and some really true honestly care and you're gonna have to respect it either way don't push it on them to want to know their you know where they come from if they have no desire nobody wants that even if you're adopted or not nobody wants something to be pushed on them for them to figure out when it's you know them going through it but if they want to find out be supportive be supportive like I can't even imagine I know you know there's lots of

11:34probably and you guys can probably relate to this some you know nerves and things I mean you guys are open adoption which is awesome but like for me a closed adoptee where it's like what's gonna happen is my kid gonna get hurt if they find their birth mom and there's total rejection you know are they gonna find them and you know fly off with them which that still makes me giggle because I'm like my parents are my parents but I know there's adoptees and I know of adoptees who have gone and lived with their birth families for a little while and to me I can't fathom that but everybody's different that's why it's beautiful every story is different and so just be supportive and love

12:10and like really that's the most you can do like that's the most you can do so yeah yeah I agree that's great advice so buddy is not biologically an elf but I feel like he's this perfect elf you know and so I feel like that brings up this question of nature and nurture and how they can both play a part and how someone develops do you have any thoughts on that oh yeah and this goes this goes more into since I've met my birth family um the nature versus nurture like people who think

12:41like you if you're only around people thus you're gonna be just like those people that's not the case it's crazy when like I said I haven't met them in person yet but I'm talking to them and they do like hand gestures or with their faces and I'm just like like it blows my mind because I'm like oh my gosh I totally make that face or oh I totally do that I've never ever grown up around these people they live clear in Columbia so it's like kind of hard but it's just it's crazy I mean but granted there are also probably some things from my parents that I you know since they raised

13:11me that for sure you know values and things like that and stuff I'm gonna take on but it's definitely crazy when you do find and you talk to any adoptee who is like me and older and close and has found and has been able to develop a really good relationship or maybe not a good relationship but met that person every single one of them will tell you how crazy it is to finally see somebody that looks like you and to like have mannerisms and do things just like him and it's

13:41like I've never lived with this person and it's wild it's just wild I think that we've I think that we've highlighted this on the podcast before but our oldest our daughter she and her birth mom have a lot of mannerisms that are really similar and even just little things like like saying like she'll say I'm thinking on instead of I'm thinking about which is what generally people say but she'll say I'm thinking on and it's just like her birth mom and we see

14:11her birth mom but not enough that she would see you would think yeah yeah that she would develop that speech habit from listening to her birth mother and we never say that so it's just so so interesting it's so cute I smile every time she says it's just adorable and yeah yeah it's so interesting how even language patterns and mannerisms are just so ingrained in our DNA they definitely are yeah yeah Aubrey we would love to hear from you

14:44yeah I just want to chime in on that about my daughter so my daughter is only two we have an open adoption so I've been listening to your podcast ever since I found it probably right around the time that she was placed in our family and so anyway we've been integrating you know we see her birth parents we've seen them every couple of months initially and then it started to get like more and more frequent so like the last month I think they came over and hung out like three times and so they've been meeting my family my husband's family and then bio mom brought her

15:16her mom so then we got to hang out with bio grandma a few times went down to visit her house and her farm so anyway um my mom you know she still struggles a little bit with like where do I fit in versus like the other grandma and you know and I'm like mom it's just like how you can love all of us siblings like you know me and my siblings and we and we can love you guys and my in-laws and our grandparents like multiple sets of grandparents so just kind of explaining that like working through things with our parents they're very open but they're just they do all the research and things and reading things that my husband and I did and listening

15:48um so anyway all that to say when we were hanging out with the you know biological family a little bit more um it was really cool to hang out with my mom separate another day and she said I always see that that my daughter I always see that she throws her head back when she laughs and she's only two but like every time she laughs she like throws her head back and she's like and I just thought that was the cutest thing I've always seen her do that and I wondered is that something that she just does or is that something that like I've never seen you do that and then um she said and then we spent time with her bio mom and her bio grandma and she's like we're all sitting there

16:22talking and you were in the kitchen like making something and like my dad said something I guess and made them laugh and they both threw their heads back to laugh and she said it all clicked and she was like that was just so incredible to see where you know where her granddaughter I won't use her name but like not that you would see it if you find me on Instagram but like she's like just she's like just that she does that like her biological family and she's like and then it started to make me realize like this is so much more than just welcoming another family or giving

16:53her roots or whatever she's like this is like who she is and she gets to see that when she's with them and grow up with that and I was like so cool to see my mom like experience that and just realize how important it is for for our daughter so nature versus nurture man is crazy like and I know we're gonna see a lot of that as she grows up it is and there's moments where it's like really apparent and then it kind of fades away and then it just comes back just like that that's a beautiful example and what a great thing for your mom to experience too to see that it's really this

17:27combination of both worlds that come together and don't one never ever fades away really they're all there and if we can support that and help that it's going to bless and and benefit our children all right I feel like we've kind of discussed this already but Melina if there's anything you want to add to it please feel free so Papa Elf told Buddy everything that he knew about his bio family after Buddy overheard that he wasn't an elf what do you think some of the best ways are

17:58to tell adoptees about these things and as we've already talked about is it better to hold off or is it better to wait what would you say to that first off it's never good to wait it should always be known a lot of because we do interviews too me and my one friend and we've had some adoptees on and they've known since day one whether they're international whether they're domestic they've always known their parents have done such a good job at incorporating a different not there's no right or wrong way but it should always be known like as soon as your kid can be aware of things

18:31you should always be talking to them about that when they're an infant when they're when you're loving on when you're holding them you know things like you know you do have another mom out there and because of her you know I was able to like there's so many different things some turned it into a bedtime story about how their mom and dad you know like it's just there's so many creative ways to do it but it all it always needs to be talked about always like always when they're a teeny tiny baby I don't care because that stuff resonates and then as they get older it's just the norm and it makes you know it's something added this a little bit more special to them

19:03because if you're open and honest about it it's the only way to go don't ever hide it hiding is just not going to get you anywhere yeah I think in our last episode with Amy Wilkerson we talked with her she's a social worker and she and an adoptee and she shared that if your children are asking no matter what age they are they're ready for an answer or a response and obviously we have to make that age appropriate for them but um giving as much detail as we can um as early as

19:33we can helps them avoid filling in the blanks with stories that could be crazy right the things that might scare them the things that might make them feel stressed or depressed or uneasy um the more information we can give them um and the more pieces they have to that puzzle the more beneficial or positive it is for the child's experience yeah all right we are gonna watch another little clip and transition our discussion into how reunion went for Buddy and Elf

20:07dad dad all right uh let's get it over with I walked all day and night to find you you look like you came from the north pole exactly where I came from Santa must have called you oh yeah sure he uh just got off the cell phone with me he did so go on go on with what well are you gonna sing a song or something or can I just go back to work a song uh yeah anything for you dad um I I'm I'm here with my dad and we never met and he wants me

20:51to sing him a song and um I was adopted but you didn't know I was born so I'm here now I found you daddy and guess what I love you I love you I love you oh well that's weird usually guys just uh you know put my name in the jingle bells or something it's me your son Susan Wells had me and and she didn't tell you and and and but now I'm here

21:24it's me buddy Susan Wells you said Susan Wells yes who sent this Christmas gram what's a Christmas gram I want one I think we should call security good idea I like to whisper too all right so clearly Buddy's idea of what he wanted for when he went and met his dad did not pan out like the reality versus what happened or his expectation versus reality was not the same and so Santa

22:00told him before he left that he should guard his heart and your experience with reunion do you think that's good advice and what might you add to it okay this this one actually makes me really emotional because it's probably the scariest thing in the world like when I did decide that I wanted to find my birth family like Santa's advice is so good guard your heart because you don't know what's gonna happen because you go through everything of when I meet them are they gonna reject me are they even still gonna be alive you know like somebody that you've never met you

22:31can still mourn especially when they carried you for nine months and gave birth to you um just a lot of the unknown like oh there's so much unknown and you can get hurt and you can see like with buddy like it breaks my heart like it's crazy because growing up watching this I never really like put all the adoption stuff into it but now that I'm older like it just breaks my heart like I can't believe how much I cried watching this movie weekend with my kids because I'm like oh my gosh I can totally relate like yeah it's it's such good advice to guard your heart because you don't know

23:03what's gonna happen and not every reunion story is good and it's really hard to hear because for me mine's been more on the positive and I want that for everybody but I also love the people who haven't had good reunions they look back and think well look at everything that I do have and all the stuff that you know it's they try and go for the positive most of the people that I know that like they don't dwell and sit and then like pour me oh my gosh this happened like because if you're gonna dwell on that I'm sorry but your life's gonna be hard I'm gonna stay at point blank your

23:34life is gonna be hard if you just want to focus on the negative and all those kinds of things and so yeah definitely definitely guard your heart because it can be scary yeah this scene made me so much more emotional as I was getting ready for this as well and without that extra perspective that you have um do you have any thoughts on what we can do when family relationships particularly in adoption are awkward or are hard to balance are you meaning more like when birth families

24:04involved is that what you're meaning on this question I can't say for sure this one was submitted but I believe that's what they meant um this is this is where it gets hard and this is this is where I believe I don't care if you're adopted or not family's hard family is hard family is so hard because there's insecurities kind of like you know with Aubrey saying with her mom that broke my heart that her mom's like well where do I fit in and that's like your grandma it doesn't matter and you'll hear me say I don't give a crap but blood does not make you family I don't care people are

24:38allowed to grow their families however they want however they want to build them that's nobody's decision and so you just have to do what you feel is best for your child and what's best for one child is not better for another child and you're gonna know your child the best but when it comes down to it support them never ever ever talk bad about their birth family if they have been wronged simply just you know I'm so sorry and I love you and I'm here for you once you start doing the bashing crap that's just as bad family's hard in general doesn't matter if you're adopted or not

25:10just support your kids the best you can every kid's different you got to do what's best for them never bash another family member whether you're adopted or not it's going to put a thorn in everybody's side just do your best to support there's going to be things you're going to see your kids get hurt and you're going to want to go at someone just don't just do the best you can to support and love even when it's super hard because if you do that then you're always going to have the trust of your kid that's beautiful that's such good advice especially at that last line you'll always have the trust of your kid thank you so um just kind of moving on buddy was really surprised

25:41by how different new york was from the north pole and throughout the buddy or throughout the movie uh buddy learned how to live in this new world and try to fit in right and so some of the questions we have now kind of fits into that so as an adoptee do you feel like you had to do this um with your biological family at least with what you remember or maybe share with us some of your experience around that um i think it's definitely going to be different when i meet them actually in person right now i've only met them over but it it is still really hard to communicate because

26:17most of them speak spanish and i don't and there is kind of this sense of things i miss out on because they get together for birthdays and stuff which and i'm a huge birthday nerd i love birthdays i love parties i love get-togethers and so my heart kind of aches when i see that but i don't let it be like screw adoption i would never think that i just think like that's where it frustrates me when people get upset with it because i'm like she was doing the best that she thought at the time by placing me for adoption um i think it's going to be a whole new territory kind of like how on here

26:50it says you know new york versus the north pole going to columbia will be very different it'll be very exciting to see where i've come from but it'll also be very different from america i think like most places because my husband travels and it's very very different wherever you go all he's been all over the world um what else this so i don't necessarily know if it fit in i feel like with the nature versus nurture i'll fit in it'll be just like a missing puzzle piece and i'll just get down there and i'll fit in and i feel like i've kind of already worked my way to where i

27:22fit in the family and it'll just be in person and i don't know i'm a very physical touch i love hugs i love everything so it's totally gonna it's gonna be like it's just giving me all the weird feelings right now talking about it like oh like because it's overwhelming i am very terrified to go to columbia i've pushed it off but once i do i think it's gonna be i don't know something totally different and this is what i've talked to some adoptees who have found their birth moms and have been able to hug them touch is so powerful that like when i do hug i don't i there's just

27:52gonna be a ton of emotion that's just gonna be released up and a huge wave and yeah so yeah my biggest thing on that last question is adoptees struggling with this the biggest advice i can give and i think it's why i feel more positive about adoption and not so angry with adoption i've done a lot of work on myself i've gone to therapy i choose honestly i choose joy over negativity it doesn't mean i don't honor that there's hard stuff it doesn't mean i'm not

28:22allowed to sit in hard stuff for a minute it doesn't mean that i don't honor those hard stories out there because they're way hard stories out there and my heart goes out to them and we see that and you know but if you're struggling with it do something that's gonna help you be okay with it and it doesn't matter if it's a week later that you feel better about it it doesn't matter if it's six months later that you feel better about it but don't wallow in it for the rest of your life because quite frankly nobody wants to be around you if you're negative all the time that's just my opinion so i know it's hard but there's also there's things that everybody struggles with with

28:55not being an adopted too and i'll always go back to that like i know there's an added layer being adopted but there's also you know everybody struggles and you just got to find out what's best and what's going to be good for you are you okay if i ask maybe a more personal follow-up question yeah of course maybe this is just logistical and nothing nothing into it but you said you've pushed off going to columbia um has that been like what what's behind that it honestly terrifies me because there's a lot of emotion i know i'm gonna have to unpack when i go

29:26there there's like it will be like it's really hard to talk about because like it's gonna be uncontrollable crying and like you can hear it in my voice just it's just a lot and i'm never like i'm not ever angry towards her i mean if you've listened to my story i am one of seven and i was smacked out in the middle and i'm the only one placed so obviously when i first found her i was like why just me but as i've done work and gotten to know i know because i'm very i believe in god and i know god wanted me here and i know he wanted me where i am and for me that's

30:00what's helped but like it's it's gonna be a lot it's gonna be a lot of crying it's gonna be a it's gonna be a lot of questions it's gonna be a lot of you know because buddy at least knows who his dad at his birth that is i don't know if i'll ever know who that is because she's very very hush about it and like i said i don't want to go too much into my story but there's just this just a bit there's a lot of emotion to unpack that i don't know if i'm mentally ready to do yeah so figuratively making that trip from the north pole to new york city there's a lot that goes into that

30:33in that yeah basically it's it's kind of silly just in the movie like all of the obstacles he has to overcome um but in reality they're like each of those might represent different things that an adoptee might have to kind of process through before actually arriving to that place and i can't imagine doing it alone like you said just sending him off into the wild i would die like my husband will be there i've already told him that like you will be every step of the way because he's you know what i mean like i can't even fathom trying to do it by myself i mean granted

31:05i know it's a movie in hollywood but still it's like how can you send somebody something that big to do alone yeah thank you for being vulnerable and opening up and sharing that with us yeah all right well we're gonna start wrapping up we have three questions left so this next question is how did you feel about the adoption language in this movie um i don't i don't know that they ever really used birth did they like birth mom birth dad

31:35i don't think so then i mean i know papa elf referred to himself as an adoptive parent which i think for namesake they have to do it which i get when you're talking to educating people that is adoptive parent but in my think you're you're my parent you're my mom you're my dad you know my birth mom she's just like that bonus mom that was able to provide this for me um i don't know that they talked it about about it a whole bunch like buddy was like i'm adopted and you know i'm your son and those kinds of things but i i mean like i said now that i'm older i

32:09don't know i don't feel like there's any confusion with it because they didn't push it a ton with the adoption language that's just how i feel awesome so how did you feel about this movie in general i personally i love it i think it's hilarious i laugh every single time i obviously you guys heard earlier i cried way more because i think now that i'm older and i can understand it um i think it does i mean with any story it's got the misses with adoption and it's got the

32:39positives with adoption i mean in the end he is able to reunite and be with his family and if you watch till the end they're a whole and my biggest thing is like i think it's like the biggest thing is like why can't you have more people in your life to love because you know he gets married has his own baby and then he goes back he goes back and sees his dad and then he also goes and stays in new york with the family that he now has you know what i mean so for me there's always room for love there's always family which i love how they portrayed that but i love it obviously it's

33:09got these weird quirks like sending him alone which we've discussed but i think it's great and hilarious and i love it every christmas season well and i think the point that you make too is that it kind of depends on what filter you're watching the movie through right if you're just watching the movie to enjoy it like it's funny like there's a ton of laughs in it right but if you're looking at it a little bit more critically or through just like solely the adoption lens you see it differently right and it might not have the same humor or the same effect as as it might otherwise yeah yeah i mean if you can't laugh at him eating gum off the

33:47streets then there's something wrong with you i'm sorry but there is because that's funny all right so our final question do you recommend elf for adoptees as some kind of media that they might be able to connect with and feel empowered by honestly no i feel like it's just a good funny movie this is not something there are some really good movies out there i know one that you guys mentioned to me that i still need to watch that i know do a really spectacular job with it but

34:18obviously every movie is going to have its faults you got to remember that with every story not every story is the same and you can't learn from one story you have to listen to every story in order if you truly want to learn that's just so no if you want to like just a funny movie go for it if you want to feel some maybe some of the fills that you know as being an adoptee that you're like oh yeah i can totally relate to that that would be hard but i don't know that it's really gonna empower you i mean it might but i would say no awesome all right i guess i mean i know

34:50that we're just kind of keeping these brief and short but um overall any last thoughts melana um about this movie and as it relates to adoption any other thoughts or feelings in your mind that you'd share um i do love the funny twist it kind of puts on it i mean it does there's parts of it that do break my heart that like you know he's in that orphanage which i feel like that's a whole different avenue of adoption there's so many different avenues of adoption i was you know placed directly from my mom to my mom you know from birth mom to mom um and it's just you're

35:26gonna feel the fills of rejection just like you know buddy fills and rejection but you're also gonna if you're willing and open to like open your heart there's so much joy and happiness that can come and you can see that buddy has to go through some really hard things with his birth dad but then his birth dad comes around and realizes that you know there's always room for love and family and things can be so magical when people are willing to open their hearts and listen and not be angry and i'm not saying that it's not hard because i get when people hurt you it's never easy but there really can truly be so much happiness just like in the movie if you're

36:00willing to work at it and because relationships aren't easy they're never easy oh what a beautiful note to end on thank you so much before we wrap up completely is there anyone from the audience today that would like to add any comments my perspective is very different yet you see it with a sensitivity that you didn't see before but it's one of my favorite christmas movies it's it's my mom's favorite christmas movie and so we watch it every year we laugh so hard but there's certain things now that just kind of sting to watch you know mostly out of a sympathy standpoint for myself

36:33and also just wanted to say thank you so much for you sharing your just your perspective as an adopte and being here because you know i want to be able to prepare as my daughter gets older and she watches this movie like just not being like this is oh this is just a great christmas movie we're going to put it in and you know we we fully expect you to just laugh and have a great time i mean year after year her feelings might change one year she might find it hilarious and then you know another year it might really trigger her and just preparing for those things kind of letting her

37:07lead the way but also just understanding that there are really sensitive topics and narratives in a whole lot of movies here's looking at you disney so you know just preparing for that because who knows what she's gonna feel like i know it's mostly positive i've been i have heard your story on i think multiple podcasts now i think two um which is awesome so thank you and i knew who you were and i was excited to be here and listen to you again and i know that you do have a more um a generally positive lens through the work you've done um but just i love that you're

37:40like yes you're gonna you're gonna have all sorts of perspectives and just letting them be what they are for each person is is really important but yeah just love listening to you so thanks for having me today guys thanks for joining us yeah thank you everybody so much thank you so much for being with us for this episode we really enjoyed doing something a little different we loved hearing from melena so also thank you to our audience and for everyone who participated

38:12and thank you for everyone who submitted questions and helped us prepare the episode if you follow us on instagram or follow our website at openadoptionproject.org you might know that we currently have a giveaway that's wrapping up in a couple of days so if you don't know about that you can check it out on one of those venues we have a newsletter that we just barely launched and so the giveaway is connected to that if you subscribe then you're entered to win a copy of some more sisters being adopted and a 25 gift card so enter that if you haven't yet and subscribe

38:46to our newsletter and what else i think someone might say why a newsletter what benefit am i going to get from a newsletter how would you answer that that's a great question so i think our newsletter we really want it to be geared to be helpful to the whole adoption community but this in particular at this point i'd say it's probably a little more geared toward adoptive parents and especially with open adoption relationships trying to help people develop these relationships for their kids to help them have that healthy sense of self and that healthy

39:20connection with their bio families thanks everybody for listening to this episode we hope you all watch elf this christmas and keep an eye out for some of the themes that we've talked about today and maybe let it be a conversation starter between you and other people in or out of the adoption community thanks so much for being here and happy holidays

40:08so

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