Cultivating Meaningful Long-Distance Relationships

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 55. We're The Nelsons, I'm Shaun, and I'm Lanette, and today we're excited to share a panel where we'll be discussing how to cultivate meaningful relationships in open adoption and specifically a little bit more about creating these relationships over longer distances as all three of our panelists currently don't live in the same state as their family through adoption. Yeah, so in this panel we'll

0:32have a couple different perspectives shared from three wonderful women. Yes, so we'll hear from Dawn, Regan, and Carrie. Dawn and Regan are adoptive mothers and Carrie is a birth mother. And the birth mother of our oldest daughter. Yes, so fun. We love her. So yeah, we really loved hearing from all three of these women and hearing their thoughts on how to cultivate these relationships.

1:07Welcome to the podcast everybody. We're so glad to have you here. So here we have Dawn and we have Carrie and we have Regan and we're so grateful all three of you could join us for this episode. We're going to go around and have each of you introduce yourselves. So let's start with Dawn. Hi, my name is Dawn. I live in Northern Virginia just out of Washington DC. I have been an adoptive mother for almost nine years now. I am a single mother of three. My children are 19, 17,

1:38and almost nine. We have two Pomeranians and a ragdoll cat. And when I'm not busy with all of that, I'm an avid tennis player and I also enjoy pilates and photography. Great, we are so glad to have you here. Thank you, Dawn. Next, let's hear from Regan. Can you introduce yourself? I'm Regan. My husband and my two kids all live in Utah over by Lanette. Yeah, we're just happy to be in

2:09the mountains all the time. I'm an artist. Yeah, that is what I'm doing most of the time and besides moming. And yeah, we cook a lot and we hike a lot and love yoga, just all those good things. So we're adoptive parents of our little baby. We just got her in January and are just so thrilled to have her part of our family. Awesome. Thank you so much, Regan. We're glad to have you here. And last, let's hear from Carrie. Carrie, can you introduce yourself? Well, start off, I'm

2:42Carrie Jensen. I live currently in Ohio. I used to live in Utah, but my husband got a job out here and we had to make the big move cross country, which was definitely entertaining. Okay, so how I am connected is actually through Shaun Lanette. I placed my daughter with them 11 years ago and currently my hobbies are cross stitching. Been doing a lot of that here recently and diamond painting.

3:14I don't know if you know what diamond painting is, but it's like little resin little jewels that you put on canvas and it makes it all shiny. And it's amazing. You're so good at both. I'm just gonna throw that out there. It's true. Oh, thank you. Great. So we are so glad to have all three of you here with us and are so excited to hear your thoughts on how to cultivate these meaningful relationships in adoption. So to start off, we're going to ask if each of you can share your adoption stories with our listeners and we're gonna start off with Carrie. We

3:45actually featured Carrie in episode 5 of our podcast long ago and so if you want to hear more of her story, you can also go back and listen to that episode. So Carrie placed her daughter for adoption with me and Shaun and it's been about 11 years. So Carrie, do you want to go ahead and share what that process looked like for you? I was in a relationship with her birth father and we were trying to figure out who to place with and through the agency that we're going for or

4:16through had a website that had a bunch of people on there of course and you can kind of pick and choose what you were looking for and through process elimination we found Shaun and Lanette and we found them pretty early and we built the relationship before the birth on February 14th. We told them that we wanted to place with them forever changed Valentine's Day for us. We're

4:50not really caring about Valentine's Day, loving it. Yes. And then we gained still a relationship. They came to ultrasound and then she was born but she had to go to primary children's hospital and Shaun and Lanette followed her there because I couldn't go. Oh, I was grateful you guys were able to go with her. I mean, I wanted somebody there with her. It was heartbreaking. We were so torn just to do. Yeah, it was crazy. And well, even before that, you know, my water broke

5:26and poor Shaun was in a choir concert. I don't know if he was conducting or if he was actually singing. I think he was singing at the time. He was singing. Yeah. And I was the only one home. I was freaking out because I didn't have a ride to the hospital, you know, but then eventually everything worked out and everyone got there and I got there just fine. And then yeah, so they went with her while I had to stay. And I knew without a doubt I was going to place her.

5:57I knew very early on she belonged with somebody else that yes, she was my daughter, but she was also somebody else's. It kind of went from there. We were still learning a lot of boundaries, a lot of changes. Everything worked out eventually, but you and I were both on learning curves. And I mean, I feel it's

6:30still kind of that way because now she's growing up and it's still kind of like a whole new learning curve. Like even for my brain, it's just a whole new, because like when she was born, she was little, you know, you could easily set those boundaries, but now she's becoming her own person. And now it's like, okay, how to talk to this new person who's her own self, you know, and now since we're long

7:00distance, it's a little more difficult. Yes, long distance has changed our relationship a bit, huh? And we're still navigating it. It's very new. Thank you so much, Carrie. So next, can we have Dawn, can you share your adoption story? It was a long journey. I'll start at that. And basically we had two boys and in between the boys had a couple of miscarriages, struggled with secondary infertility, basically had tests and everything done. Everything pointed to

7:30nothing, essentially. And so it was kind of that secondary infertility, unexplained, no answers. And, you know, we decided to try other things and we did, you know, IUIs and we did an IVF. And then I just said, you know what, I just don't want to do this to my body anymore. And I would like to explore adoption. And that was something that my ex-husband was not super keen on because he just didn't think you could love another child as much as you love your own. And I

8:01challenged him and I said, well, I really want you to dig deep and think about it because we have a wonderful home and we've got two boys. I wanted to have, you know, four to five children and I really think that you should search your soul on this. And so it took a little bit, but he eventually came around and as soon as he was like, yep, let's do it. I had a home study done, had all the documentations, the write-ups, everything. Like it was like, I mean, New York second, our profile was done. We signed on with a big agency that touted quick match times. And basically like we were, I think we had our first match within

8:35three weeks of going live on their website. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That is so fast. Yeah. Yeah. So then that, that whole journey, if you want me to continue basically just, you know, started off and, you know, we had a couple of matches that turned out that they weren't going to go through. And then we had our first unfortunate failed adoption in the state of Minnesota. The birth mother had changed her mind after we had the baby for four days. And that was devastating

9:05for us. Never forget on 11, 11, 11, we got the text from her saying she couldn't do it and came to our hotel and took the baby. So we went through a lot of upheaval with that, that my boys, you know, back home had FaceTime with us in the hospital. My in-laws were with them and it took a while for that. And then we basically, you know, kept going and the agency was really great with us. And you know, I kept trying to get us, you know, in front of, you know, more birth moms and we were gender specific because we had two boys. And so we decided we

9:38wanted to have a girl because if you can choose, why not, you know, and our boys are two and a half years apart. So basically in August of 2013, we were matched with Jessica, who is my daughter's birth mom and she's in Michigan. And I was completely honest with her about our journey and just said, look, I get it. This has got to be the hardest thing. Making a choice like this, you're brave, takes courage. But if you would like to wait and make sure that this is

10:08something you want to go through, we've been through a lot. And I understand why don't you, you know, call us when you've come to that decision. And she said, no, at 20 years of age, the wisdom from her was just remarkable. I mean, I was impressed with her from day one. And she said, no, I know that God wants this baby girl to be yours. And I am not going to change my mind. I would not put you and your boys through that. You know, come here. I want you to be in the room. I want you to, you know, hold her first. I want you to name her. And so we just

10:42like we started a conversation and I told her that I wanted this, you know, this wasn't about just getting a baby, that this was about a family and staying connected. And as much as she was comfortable, we would be comfortable. And that's pretty much how it started. And it has continued in that way. So Brynn is now she'll be nine in September and her name means hopeful because this whole journey was about hope. I mean, it really was almost three years in the

11:13making. And you know, the, the, she was born in 2013. My father passed away in February and she was born in September. So I called it a very bipolar year, if you will, it just started off pretty sad and then ended up with the happiness of the addition to our family. So you were really straightforward with the birth mom and let her know that you were open to as much openness as she was comfortable with. And how did that conversation go? How did you guys figure

11:43out what to do from there? So I was definitely more open to whatever because I met her and her family. The month before Brynn was born, I flew out to Michigan, but a great time, just really meshed well. And I was able to get to know her mom and I, her mom was a couple of years younger than me, which was kind of funny. And then, you know, we all just, it was like, we were like one big family that hadn't seen each other in a while. It just was easy. They were

12:15super sweet, humble family, small town in Michigan. And they just really embraced us. And her stepfather, you know, was thanking me profusely, like this is what she's wanted, what she needs to make her feel better. And, you know, it's hard. I mean, I was happy and ecstatic for our happy ending, our little pink caboose, but I felt sad for her because it was a loss. And I was sensitive to that. And we talked about it, you know, when Brynn was born, we were given a

12:46room down the hall from her. And Jessica said, no, I want you to stay with me because I want to watch you with her. And that made me a little nervous because I was like, oh no, you know, is this going to give her too much time? Is this going to be, you know, because of what we went through before. And she just was so sensitive to that. I mean, the girl was very compassionate and cared almost more about us than what she was going through. And that was, that was extremely special. And, you know, meeting her whole family and her friends and having them in the hospital was, was great. And then just, you know, saying goodbye was the

13:18hardest part. That was, that was really tough. And then I had to stay in Michigan because each state has different laws. I stayed in Michigan for about two weeks or so until she went to court and signed, you know, the papers. And then I was able to drive back to Virginia. So that's beautiful. So what does your relationship look like today? So our relationship's great. We really honestly have communicated, you know, from the, you know, August of 2013 until now, we've, we have a great text

13:53relationship, always texted, call occasionally, FaceTime occasionally. When Brynn was turning five, I flew her out here. She had never been on an airplane before. And I was like, you know what, it's time. She was in a great place. She had actually remarried and had another child. And so she was just, you know, moving forward in life and just great communication. And she had never been to DC. And so we had a great trip. We went and found her great-grandfather's,

14:24great-great-grandfather's headstone at Arlington National Cemetery. And just, it was a seamless, again, it was just like, she was always a part of our family. You know, Brynn, she and Brynn spent the night. They had a sleepover in the guest room the whole time she was here. And, you know, again, the goodbye was hard. I mean, goodbye is hard, period. And then again, just May, so this past May, Brynn had her first Holy Communion. And I flew Jessica out for that because I wanted her to be a part of that. And she came out and we did

14:58that. And then we had Mother's Day the next day. And so we had a really special long weekend. And again, just very special times with her. I mean, she's just a solid person. And I applaud her. I mean, the courage that she had and continues to have is just remarkable. That's so beautiful. I love that she's been able to travel and come see you guys too. What a neat experience. Yeah, it's been great. There's nothing I want to do for her. She's one of the most special people in my life and always will be. And I know Brynn feels

15:28the same way. And, you know, it's a good thing. It's beautiful. And I love how you said it's just felt so organic. Like, you feel like you've always been family. There's just this love. It did. And it wasn't like, I feel like some situations you hear about, there's taboo affiliated with their decision. And there really wasn't. There was no greater love than to do what she did for her child. And she knew that she couldn't do it. And I just felt like that I wanted Brynn to grow up knowing that. And ever since Brynn was two, I told her, look, you were born in

16:01Jessica's belly and God gave you to us. And that was what we always said. And, you know, I think fully she's gotten it now that she's gotten older, but she, you know, has always seen pictures. She FaceTimes. She now plays online with Jessica's two daughters. They play Roblox and they FaceTime and they chat. And it's super cute. You know, she has, you know, half siblings out there. And it's, you know, just another huge family to love her. Which is great. Thank you so much for sharing that with us, Dawn. I love that your daughter's

16:31able to connect with her sisters as well online and that they're able to maintain a relationship in that way. All right. So next we're going to hear from Regan. Regan, can you share your story with us? So oddly, I was, I was one of those people that grew up and there was no adoption in my family, but I knew from a young age, I really, I don't know, felt called to that. I don't know what, but I just knew that I would. In fact, on my first date with my husband, it was

17:05literally brought up. And that sounds just nuts now, but that is, and it wasn't weird to talk about is the weird thing, but there was lots of adoption in his family and he loved it. So we kind of knew we were with the right person. Anyway, we did have infertility issues and I have other health issues and it was, it was

17:37really hard to get pregnant with my son. And then when I did get pregnant with my son, it wasn't fraught with complications. It was just, it was so hard on my body. And I, and we tried again for three years after that to get pregnant and just decided, you know what, it wasn't worth the toll on my body. We wanted to adopt

18:07anyway. And so we just kind of changed course. Initially, we started adopting from India actually. And we started that in January of 2020. That was not the best time to do that. I think I was also so naive about it because I went into it thinking, you know, there's, there's so many orphans in India and who knows

18:39actually how many of them are orphans or just lost kids or, you know, their families can't afford to keep them or it's, it's just so hard. But I went into it kind of thinking like, oh, okay, there won't be a birth family. You know, this baby will just be all ours. We won't have to share. We won't have to. And that horrifies me now. You know, of course we were in the mindset of, oh yeah, we would help them try to find their family, but we knew the chances of that were

19:11really slim. Anyway, time went on and this adoption got harder because of the pandemic. And I was watching people I knew that were in the same adoption process and that you'd be matched with your child, but you were so reliant on an already squirrely court system that all of a sudden was even worse than a

19:41pandemic. So I was watching people get rescheduled 30 times for a court date. And it's so hard. You're getting pictures of this baby. You know, this baby's yours and you're just waiting to get signed off. So I was watching people wait a year and a half. And I, we just kind of decided this is the best way to get through this. This is the type of heartbreak we just didn't want, but we also didn't want to go into upper level dating with birth families and we

20:16didn't want to get rejected. We, anyway, we loved the idea that we couldn't get rejected in India, you know, and my perspective has completely changed on the fact that you actually discovered your podcast and you showed your beautiful open adoptions. And I went, oh, that is not as scary as I thought at all. You're, you know, you've done such a beautiful job cultivating these

20:46beautiful relationships. And my son had a health scare and he was luckily in the hospital filling out paperwork. And all of a sudden so sad, realizing if we got our children, if we, you know, adopted from India, we would have no medical information. We would have nothing and we would not know who their families were. And anyway, from that kind of moment on, we decided, okay,

21:19we're going to switch to domestic because it turns out we really want a birth family. We really want that. So we, we tried to do it by ourselves for a minute and, but we are not good at putting ourselves out there. We're, we're fairly private and that's sometimes hard in this. And you just gotta, I don't know, on all of this, you gotta pick your hard. So we, we signed up with an

21:53agency and that, that was a lot better for us. And we, we tried to navigate ethics best we could. And yeah, it is hard. You're, you are getting rejected and you'll get really close to a baby and it won't work out and you don't know why. And you don't know what's the matter with you. And there's nothing. It's just not the right fit. Anyway, so after a year of that, I was actually

22:26really done. And just as I was ready to quit is exactly when we got a baby. So, and it was, it was incredible. And I was so shocked because her birth mother didn't, she barely even interviewed us and I could hardly believe it. She just chose us and we were going, well, wait, but we want to get to know you and we

22:58want you to be really comfortable with this decision. Are you sure? You know, anyway, it was a 12 minute conversation and she was like, oh, I'm so sorry. And so we, we dashed to that state and anyway, met our baby and let, I shouldn't say luckily, but the baby was in the hospital for a little while. And that was, I was happy about that. Not that the baby was in the hospital,

23:31but that I could actually spend time with her birth mother because it, anyway, it was so incredible and so touching. And I'm just so in awe of these incredible birth parents and what they're doing. And I was so impressed because I felt like there was so much room for grief and there was so much room for us to even, for her to be upset with us, you know, and she never was.

24:05I wasn't prepared for how emotional that was going to be or how we would come home just grieving for her, you know, even though we talked to her a lot. When, yeah, when you're loving your baby, I think loving their birth family is such a big part of that. I mean, and of course you're going to care and be heartbroken for her. And it's also, what I never expected was how fun it would be to see aspects of our daughter and, you know,

24:36just the things she picked up from her birth mom, you know, and just like even already just like little mannerisms or little looks just it's, and it's so fun to see, oh, you're like your mom in this and this way. And it's, it's awesome. And I love hearing about how your own mindset shifted throughout your story where you felt prepared for adoption, right? But getting to the point where you felt open to this concept

25:08of open adoption and adopting here in the United States, it took time to get to that point where that felt comfortable. Yeah, it did. I think that's important to talk about. And that's a process. I was upset with, you know, the initial adoption training I was having was for international and it was, you know, how to bring someone of a different race into your home and how to, you know, make them feel culturally seen.

25:38And it was a lot of things on attachment, but there wasn't a lot on how to, you know, there was a lot on how to respect their home culture. And we hope that you're supportive if they want to go find their family one day, but there wasn't a lot about that. And I'm heartbroken for these kids that just, they don't know. I know so many adoptees from foreign countries and just, they always have this hole in their heart.

26:09And it's heavy and so hard. Yeah. And they've come up to me and said, oh, you have an open adoption. And I, you know, I wish with all my heart, I had that. Thank you so much, Regan. And thank you all three of you for sharing these stories and these different challenges with these different aspects and perspectives of adoption. So we're going to go ahead and jump into a few different questions now about building these relationships as birth parents, as adoptive parents, trying to help support the adoptees in our lives.

26:41So first we're going to talk about what some of the lessons are that you have learned and maybe some things that you wish you had known going into this journey. So we're going to start off talking to Dawn. Dawn, what would you say to that? Well, I know in the beginning, you know, I wasn't really, you know, we went with a big agency that, you know, matched quickly. And that was something I wanted to do because I was over 40 and I wanted to, you know, our boys were two and a half years apart

27:11in this, you know, infertility journey. And then, you know, the adoption, the adoption journey took almost three years. That added years and I just didn't want, you know, too much more time to go. So we matched with a great agency. I don't have any regrets with that, but I don't feel like we really fully understood, you know, birth moms, obviously they're in this situation because of, you know, many different circumstances in their lives. And then also the failed adoption that we had, I had no idea that that was,

27:42there were a few red flags and I was a little, my gut told me something, but I just thought, no, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. So I knew, you know, at a certain point that it was definitely not gonna, you know, go through. And that, you know, I wish I had listened to my gut a little bit more on that. And then the last thing is that I did not realize that birth moms are only able to get certain amount of funding that's pertaining to the pregnancy. I just thought, you know, agencies get this money,

28:14but a lot of it would go to the birth moms because they're the ones that are going through all this stuff and they're, you know, placing a child and they're not the ones that get much. And it's, that's hard, you know, and then you also can't look like you're paying for a baby, so to speak. And so that was a little eyeopening for me too. I thought, well, shoot, I would, you know, and I understand why, but it's just, you know, I think the wrong people are getting rich here. Yeah, absolutely. So next let's go to Carrie. Carrie, what are some things that you wish

28:45you had known going into this journey? Being completely honest and open. I will admit there were a lot of times that I felt there were things I wanted to tell you guys, but I was too scared. Yeah. And there's some things that I regret that I didn't. But it did work out perfectly fine and I don't regret any of it at this point. But being completely open and honest,

29:16that is for me the best key. Because if they really want to work with you and, you know, want that relationship, then open communication, basically any relationship. Yeah. You know, even with family and family, you know, even with family and friends, you know, it's a key factor for, I feel, everything. Yeah.

29:46Relationship wise. So thinking back to that time when you felt like you weren't able to share, what advice would you give to us, to me and Shaun, or to other adoptive parents to help them know how they can help other birth parents feel more comfortable sharing what they need to share? At the time, well, with all the craziness, I mean, it's hard, you know, because it's a huge decision.

30:24But I feel with people who are hoping to adopt, that if the birth parents have any uncertainty and they're trying to come to you, you've got to realize it takes a lot of courage. Because, sorry. Oh, you're good, yeah. You're trusting your child to complete strangers, you know?

31:01And you hope that everything's gonna be okay. Yeah. It takes a lot of courage, so don't, I mean, I got lucky with you guys, but I know a lot of people who will listen, they'll listen and say, okay, but then they don't follow through with it, you know? Yeah. And I feel- And that's heartbreaking, yeah.

31:31Yeah, so the follow through for sure, actually really mean what you say, is definitely a big factor to create that relationship and even ask them, maybe sometimes it's like, do you have any concerns or things that you're worried about? Like ask them what they feel. Yeah, I love that. Just say, is there something you want to talk about?

32:02Yeah. Yeah. Because some aren't willing to even open up, but if you make that step forward first, like, hey, we just want to make sure you're okay, because after our sessions of the ultrasounds, we would go out to eat and then you kind of talk to us, on a friendly basis.

32:32We did get lucky that we had, we built the relationship before she was even born. Yeah. But some people are not that lucky. So check up on them every once in a while, especially in the early couple of years, make sure that they are okay. Like treat them as a friend or a family member,

33:04because they will be. I love that. Yeah. If you are having an open adoption, they will be family. Like I consider you guys as my family and I will never regret that. Yes, family, as any family member would, has issues every now and again. But that doesn't mean it can't be worked out. Absolutely. You just got to talk it out if you have an issue with them. You know?

33:35And the relationship's more important than whatever the issue is. Yeah. Yeah. So like I said, be open and honest and be willing to reach out to them too. It's not just a one-way road. It's got to happen both ways. I love that. That's great advice. So what would you add to this conversation, Regan? One thing I regret that I didn't prepare for, because I was prepared for, how would my daughter integrate into my family?

34:07Would she feel welcome? And is there any people I need to be worried about? Or just from a racial perspective? What I was unprepared for is I came home and all the flack they gave me about birth mother, no one tells you to educate your family on a birth parent. And I didn't. And I was all of a sudden horrified when I got home

34:37and grandparents are saying, oh, I hope she just pulls her life together and leaves you alone one day. And I was like, what? How could you say that? Or just I got, or I got people that would say, oh, you have an open adoption, but what you need to protect this baby. And I was horrified. I'm like, I'm sorry, protect the baby from what? From her mother's love? From who she, from her roots?

35:10I don't under, and everyone was worried of, oh, can she come back? Can she take the baby? And no. Anyway, so I came home just in awe of this woman and there was so much stigma against her. And I've been able to help educate on some of this, but it's, anyway, I wish I had, our situation was kind of a surprise.

35:42So there wasn't a lot of time to go, well, this is the birth mom. And this is how it's all working. And I just wish I had prepped my family more on that. All right, so we're gonna move to the next question. How would you describe your relationship with your child's family, respectively, adoptive or birth family, to someone who doesn't know anything about open adoption?

36:12And we're going to start off with Regan. I'd say it's evolving and I'm learning that it's always going to be evolving and that's okay. We have a very respectful and beautiful relationship. I mean, her mom and I are definitely friends now. We talk a lot and we've promised to come visit once a year. And that's where it's at one day. I think we hope that circumstances might change

36:46where she could come visit here. Cause I would love for her to see, have context of where our little girl is growing up and what she's doing and that doesn't translate over FaceTime often. So that's the hope for one day, but we're not there yet. Awesome, so it's an open adoption and you're hoping for more. Yes, which is right. Not something I ever expected.

37:16I went from not wanting a birth family at all to absolutely wanting one and wanting more. I love that evolution though. That's beautiful. Yeah, so yeah, thanks for helping me with this evolution cause. Well, that really is so beautiful to hear. I'm happy that the podcast has helped you. But yeah, it's a hard process.

37:47We've been there too, just getting that education and that background and learning that it's not a scary thing to have an open adoption. All right, so next let's talk to Dawn. How would you describe your relationship with Jessica and her family to somebody who doesn't know anything about open adoption? Well, I think everyone would say early on, wow, are you sure you wanna still talk to them

38:17because aren't you worried that they're gonna try to take Bren away? And that I know has always been a fear that people have talked about. And I'll be honest, I not once ever thought that that would be like ever. Like even when I went through my divorce, I was anxious about telling her about it because it wasn't something that I anticipated or wanted. And so the way she handled that, her family, I mean, they were so supportive. And again, not once did I think for one second

38:47that they were going to want to try to get Bren back. They felt badly, they supported me, they still support me. Their words are so kind. And I just feel like anyone going through adoption and having, I don't know, I think if you have an open mind with what the birth family wants and what you want, and you just keep full disclosure on both sides and just set up healthy boundaries. And healthy boundaries are good for any relationship. And especially with that.

39:18And just talking through things and making sure that you're on the same page and being sensitive to each dynamic because there's two sides. Then you come at different angles and just making sure that there's a mutual respect and coming to meet halfway if you have to. I think that's great advice, awesome. How have you cultivated strong and meaningful open adoption relationships? I think all the above with communicating.

39:49We FaceTime so that we have a presence there. We share pictures. I've had her visit. We are talking about going to Michigan, hopefully this summer if we can get away. COVID kind of blocked a lot of that for a while with travel. But we're hoping to get out there, at least Bren and I, to see everyone. And because her whole family, I mean, Bren, everyone knows about Bren and everyone sees pictures. And again, just going out there

40:20and going back to where Bren was born. She wants to see it. She wants to see her half siblings. And I think that that's important. I love that. It's so exciting. I hope that happens soon. Yeah, me too. So you talked about the importance of having boundaries, healthy boundaries in all relationships. I totally agree. What are your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts or advice for creating those healthy boundaries? I think again, it's just full disclosure

40:52on your feelings in a respectful way. I know again, there's different dynamics. There's different viewpoints on how much contact, what kind of contact. And I think just really being honest about that. And I mean, it's a sensitive topic. It's not always gonna be as seamless as our story. I mean, our story is my favorite because it just really unfolded in the most beautiful way.

41:22And I think just understanding what each party wants is key and just really being honest about it and not over-promising and under-delivering because you don't wanna set anyone up for disappointment. And just again, having that set out early on in the journey, I think is good. Of course, things can unfold in different ways, but I think just keeping an open mind and again, just being honest and communicative is the best way to proceed.

41:52So awesome, great advice. Do you have any other tips or advice for creating an open adoption and a positive relationship? Well, I think automatically, again, going back to the fear of, are they gonna try to take this child back? Are they gonna, I think that that is, I don't wanna call it an old wives tale, but I think it's definitely something that happened probably in the late 60s and early 70s when adoption records were sealed and closed. And there was really very few open adoptions.

42:24And I speak of that because my parents had a closed adoption and this is what started my whole thinking about adopting. And I was reunited with my brother just 20 years ago. They had a closed adoption. And so when you have a closed adoption, it really does make people wonder what happened. Was it taboo? Is there something you don't wanna talk about that you wanna know? And I think it's just important to keep it open.

42:55And again, just have good communication and understand what each party wants out of it and be respectful. And again, being flexible and knowing that that relationship could change in time. I mean, obviously, if there is a birth mom that is not making good choices, maybe it's drug related or maybe there's jail involved. I mean, there's all of that. And I think just knowing that if you have other children that you need to make sure,

43:25it has to be healthy for everybody. Yeah, that's great advice. That's really also, I didn't realize that you have a brother who was adopted. So he's older than you, I'm guessing. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So do you have any tips or thoughts on reunification with a family member like that who was adopted? Yeah, so that was another great. And again, I could be on a talk show with all these stories, but that is hard because then the records were sealed.

43:57And I found out like 98 when the internet just came out. And so I spent years while I was working, looking for him, posting information. I got all the information that I could get from my mom and my grandmother and just sidebar, looked, tried to look for him and they match you if he's looking as well. And he was never looking. And so there was never a match. And I kept digging, kept digging. And the only way it was possibly

44:27to get a private investigator would have been expensive. Who knows what we would have found. And in 2004, my mom got an anonymous call from someone that worked in the courthouse. And she said, hi, I'm a search angel. I have all the information about the son he gave up in 1968. And my mom was blown away. And basically writes him, has his address name. His name was John, writes him a long letter. And he retells the story like to the day

44:57what the weather was like when his wife brought him the letter, cause she had wanted him to search all along. He was like, no, I'm just grateful for the gift of life. And I'm good. I just checked the box, no, on all the medical history questions and I'm good to go. And so that was an exciting time because I was a full brother. I mean, I was looking for him and I joke about it now. I would say, you were lost out there. I needed to find you. And he was like, I was never lost. I didn't need to be found, but so grateful that we've connected

45:29because we're more alike than my brother who I was raised with. I like, so it's kind of cool. It's a fun story. That's really neat. That's an awesome story. All right, let's go to Carrie now. How have you cultivated strong and meaningful open adoption relationships with your daughter? This goes into the questions of how to have that connection and that relationship, you know, and now since we're long distance, it's a little more difficult. I mean, I had that long distance relationship with you guys because I was in college up in Idaho,

46:01but it wasn't per se the same because that was three hours, you know, three hours away and I could come to birthdays and I could come to, you know, everything else. But now I can't do that because you're literally 24 hours straight drive nonstop. Which is, yeah, it's such a different dynamic, right? Yeah. And just like you're saying, yeah, we're still trying to figure it out. Yeah. And since she now has her own devices and whatnot

46:33that she's still getting accustomed to, I'm sure. She's sending me these Marco Polos and I felt so bad. She sent me three and I didn't send her one. I'm like, I'm so sorry. With these Marco Polos, I feel like, you know, I get to know her a little bit better, but I know you guys trust me enough that I'm not gonna say anything inappropriate and I will definitely talk to you guys. Like if there's a question she asks me and I go,

47:04I don't know how to answer this yet. And I go, okay, Shaun, this is what's happening. You know, you guys trust me enough that I will do that. And I love that you guys trust me with that. And I could not hope for any better. Well, honestly, we couldn't hope for anything better either. We really love you, Carrie, and we are so grateful for you. So next we're gonna turn that question over to Regan. So again, it's how have you cultivated

47:34strong and meaningful relationships in your open adoption? I mean, to be fair, her birth mom has made this very easy. You know, she's very bubbly and she's very happy and she just really loves to be connected. And she's been, you know, she's very kind. And so it's been really easy to be in relationship and connect and that's awesome. What we've also done is we're not 100% sure

48:08who the birth father is. We will get that tested one day because, you know, father's day rolls around and I go, oh, I wish I knew your father and could, you know, just thank him for helping you bring you here, you know, and just so she could get a little more context. And so we're hoping for that one day, but even birth mother's kind of boyfriend right now, he helped pick us as a family and just that kind of

48:40automatically made him special to us in many ways. You know, he was at our daughter's birth. He helped with the whole process and we're kind of in a relationship with him too, you know, we're very grateful and it's just sort of the special people in her sphere have also become special to us. If that makes sense. Yeah, that's awesome. Do you have any specific tips or advice for others

49:11who are trying to create these relationships? You know, I feel like this is, our birth mother does for sure have a completely different lifestyle than us. And it's the part that's hard to navigate because you don't want to offend anybody. And we're still learning how to navigate that, but I am finding that when I'm just very open

49:45and honest with her and, you know, just very kind, that's never come back to bite me. You know, it's something she appreciates and she's very understanding and it helps her connect with us better. And that's, anyway, so it's for us, for us, especially when I just, I didn't know this person, she had just given us the greatest gift on the planet. It's, I think I went in there very nervous,

50:19but just knowing I needed to be very open and transparent with her from the get-go and kind of start how I meant to go on. And that's been, it's been really helpful. It made her feel safe and kind of at ease. And that was, that was really good. Do we have any more thoughts from any of you about how we can cultivate these relationships over long distances? Well, since I'm farther away,

50:49I am lucky that she's now old enough to have communications over phone and, you know, stuff like that. But before, when she was younger, I felt, I felt, sorry, it was important for me to go to those birthdays, to go to every activity you guys invited me to so I could build that relationship. But if I wasn't, if I was here now when she was younger,

51:21I wouldn't have been able to do those things, right? So I feel to build those relationships even with you guys, we would text on occasions to check up on how life was. Even before we started this, we talked about how things were going for me, you know, since we've moved here. I feel like, like what we have already mentioned, you know, just talk to each other on occasions, you know, touch bases, you know, like you would a family member,

51:53you know, just say, hey, how are you doing? You know, and we've done that even, kind of briefly while we're here. Yes, life gets in the way. We can't deny that. But, you know, having a sincere conversation, like long distance, you know, it's, even though it doesn't have to be an hour long conversation, you know, but even if it's like five to 10 minutes, just say, hey, how are you, is, you know, a huge thing.

52:26Anyone can do that long distance, you know, whether that's their text message, if that's the only thing you feel comfortable with, or, you know, I know there was a time where I would write letters to the little one, because she was doing letters at the time. But of course that came and gone very quickly. Yeah, when she has a cell phone now, she's like, write a letter or send a text. She's definitely shooting the text. She's definitely shooting the text, yeah.

52:57Yes, but that's any kid that eventually gets one right. But I mean, that's kind of the same thing between either the people you've placed with and also the child you placed is checking up every now and again. You have to make sure that's meaningful and sincere. I absolutely agree, you can totally tell when something is sincere or maybe not.

53:29And yeah, it's so important. So we're going to start wrapping up now. It's been a while and it's been so good to hear from all of you. So do we have any additional thoughts or anything that you want to share? Let's start with Dawn. Gosh, well, I just, I appreciate you giving me time and I really, you know, love talking about this. Obviously I'm passionate about it and have deep roots in adoption and I've been in it for quite some time as a searcher and as an adoptive mother

54:01and just have experienced so much. I mean, there's highs and lows in adoption. There's uncertainties, there's scary moments, there's devastating moments. And it's really, I think to have an open adoption, it's a positive thing. Thank you, yes. We are huge advocates for open adoption. It really is such a beautiful and special relationship to nurture and prioritize. What would you add, Regan? Thanks for doing what you're doing

54:31because you completely influenced and helped us so much. And just anyway, set a beautiful foundation for our daughter's life and that's incredible. Thank you, Regan. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. That was really amazing. Yeah, thanks for having me on. This is so surreal. Great, well, thank you all three of you so much for being here and thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable and helping us as we try to discuss and learn

55:03about how to create these relationships. It's so valuable. We really appreciate you all. Thank you. Well, thank you so much to Dawn, Carrie, and Regan for joining us for this episode. I loved a lot of what they said. I think there's a lot that each of us can learn and of course everyone's situation is different. Every adoption looks different. Everyone has a different perspective. And I think that's why I wanted to share and share with you all. I think there's a lot of things that we can learn

55:33that we can do to make our lives better. And I think that's why I love you all. It looks different. Every relationship looks different. But I hope that you can begin to glean from their stories and their experiences, how that might personally apply to your situation, no matter what part of the tribe you are or however you are connected to adoption. We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode. It's an interview that Shaun did and we're excited to bring that to you. Do you wanna talk about it, Shaun? Sure, so this interview is with Steph.

56:05He and his wife moved here to the United States from France and they live in California. And one of the things that really pushed them in moving here was that they wanted to adopt and they wanted to have open adoption and that's really not an option in France. So it's pretty fun interview with Steph and we'll share that with you in two weeks. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project. And we'll see you next time.

56:35Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hi everyone.

57:09you

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