Jamie | Trauma Unaddressed

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 59. We're the Nelsons. I'm Shaun. And I'm Lanette. And today we're sharing an interview with Jamie Weiss. Jamie is an adult adoptee who shares her perspective on openness and specifically in her situation she shares how she didn't really talk much about her adoption in her home growing up. Yeah and about the impact of that lack of openness and communication in her adoptive family. We're really grateful to share

0:34this episode with its perspectives because Jamie is a big advocate for adoptee legislation and adoptee centered changes to the community. She's also hosting a podcast that just dropped this week called Adoption Re-Written and it's awesome. It focuses on looking at children's books, focusing on the adoptee perspective of how these books might come across to adoptees. I highly recommend

1:04you check it out. And now we'll jump to our conversation with Lanette and Jamie. We are here on the podcast with Jamie. Jamie, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. To start off, can we have you introduce yourself? Absolutely. I am a mom of two, been married for 22 years. We live in Tennessee and I am also a professional

1:35photographer. When I'm not busy chasing the kids around or doing some work, then we enjoy jeeping and going out driving trails and things like that. I also love to write and you know, foster my creative side. So those are kind of the things that I do in my spare time. So that's me currently as an adoptee. I was adopted in the 70s in a pre-arranged private

2:11adoption. So that was all organized before I was born. I went to my adoptive parents' home when I was five days old in a different state. So I was born in Virginia and then went to my adoptive parents in Georgia and grew up in a closed adoption. So I did not know any of my biological family. And as an adult, I am in reunion with both sides of my family and now work to start a family.

2:48I work to speak out about the things that I've dealt with as a closed adoptee or closed adoption adoptee and being in reunion and working to change laws in that regard around sealed records and birth certificates and all of that. So those are the things that kind of make up who I am at this time. Well, I'm super impressed with all that you're doing in the adoption community. We'll talk more about that, I'm sure, as we keep going. You were adopted at five days old. Before your adoption took

3:21place, were you with your biological family? Were you in a middle transitioning point? So I was born in a hospital in Virginia, but originally it was organized that I was supposed to have been born at a hospital in Georgia. My biological mom, her parents were divorced and so her mom lived in Virginia, her dad lived in Georgia. So she was kind of in between the two homes.

3:54So when I was born in Virginia, since that wasn't the original plan, the hospital didn't know that I was going to be adopted. Whereas in Georgia that was planned and the doctor knew that, so it probably would have worked out a lot differently. Being that they were aware I was going to be adopted, I probably would have been taken immediately. But instead, being in Virginia, when she had me there, I was just in the room with her like any other mom. She had to stay a

4:26little longer. She had gotten ill and had to stay a little longer. So therefore I stayed in the hospital with her. So for those five days I was in the hospital with her. And she actually had to stay a little while longer and I would have just been there with her because at that time they just didn't discharge babies unless they discharge mom. But my adoptive parents knew I had been born at that point and were anxious to get me. I believe they were a little nervous that the longer I stayed

5:01with her the more risk there was that this would not happen for them. And so they did, I guess, put in a little urging there to have someone bring me to them and take me from her. And so it just so happens that that was on the day five that I was born was also my biological mom's 18th birthday. Oh wow. So she was very young. Well I don't know if we should jump ahead to this but

5:37we'll try. So you're in reunion so you have reconnected with your biological mom. Have you talked about how that was for her? Did she feel like she had choices and advocates in all of this process? She did not. So she was mostly raised by her grandmother instead of her mom. And at the time that she became pregnant this was the spring of her senior year,

6:12being 17. So she was not employed. She did not have a car. She did not have a career or anything of that nature. So she didn't have anything to support herself. Her and my dad were friends and maybe kind of dating but it wasn't some committed relationship going on there to where he was there as a support for her. And as I mentioned her parents were divorced and family life being

6:45the way it was. There wasn't the emotional support and there wasn't financial support there as well. She also didn't know and no one told her that there were things she could do to get support. So she wasn't aware of and I don't know what all was available at the time but she wasn't aware of any support services like we at least I know we have nowadays and I'm sure some existed then.

7:18Family support or welfare, food stamps, things of that nature. She wasn't aware of those things or that she could also I guess pursue child support. So she could be receiving that financial support so she just really saw no way that she could provide for me and herself like that which is completely understandable and as a 17 year old without you know nowadays it's a little different.

7:52We have internet and feel like you can google anything but I definitely think you have to remember it was the 70s so you would have to find a phone book and think about what to look up or have some trusted adult that is able to help you and tell you and bring you to appointments or introduce you to people that can help. So that just wasn't happening and she didn't see a way around that. So did your adoptive parents and your biological parents actually know each

8:25other or was this all just through other people? So yes my adoptive dad worked with a guy who was friends with my biological grandfather. Oh wow okay. So my adoptive family, my biological family did not know each other but there was a just you know intermediary or middleman there that knew that knew each. So my parents were already

8:58hoping to adopt so I think they had had had a failed adoption. I don't really really like that word but that's what people understand where something had happened. I don't really know. I've dug into all the details of that but they had been applied I believe you know to an agency or some sort to where they had been waiting for a long time and I guess this

9:29co-worker of my dad's my adoptive dad's knew they were looking to adopt and then also knew my biological grandfather and became aware of my mom's situation and and and so they were and and he didn't connect them as far as you know introducing them but I guess told them about the situations and then got a lawyer involved and stuff like that but to my knowledge they never they never had any direct you know contact with each other.

10:05Interesting okay. So when did you first realize that you were adopted or was that something that you always knew? Well it felt like I always knew but I was around four or five when I was told. I don't I don't actually remember being told so it feels like I always knew you know but it my mom had a co-worker whose son I guess said something to me about being adopted and I don't

10:38know if it was specific to me being adopted or just in general to where then I maybe brought it up and said what's what is adoption or what I don't I don't know how that went but for some reason he said something to me about being adopted and and then that prompted my parents to tell me although they they they did plan to tell me not any particular time I guess but before too late because we they had experienced a cousin that I have who was adopted that was not told and

11:11things didn't go very well with that so they knew they were going to tell me that was that was the one thing that that they knew they wouldn't keep it a secret but I don't know when they would have told me if that had that situation wouldn't have happened but I was around four or five so just just young enough that I I guess absorbed the information but yet don't remember the actual event and it was an event it was a one-time event and we didn't talk about it again pretty much

11:42wow really yeah wow okay so in retrospect what do you wish that your adopted parents or your adoptive family had known about the needs of adoptees and trauma and addressing that pretty much anything yeah I don't know if I don't know if this is you know par for the course being the 70s it seems like to a large degree that it was but I don't believe there was any discussion

12:13at least that my parents were aware of that there was there was trauma okay um like I said the only the only thing that really they knew was that they they wanted to tell me they didn't want to keep it a secret that I was adopted and other than that I don't believe they really received any real training or information on how I might be affected otherwise except by just needing to know

12:44so so like I said when we when they told me I was adopted then we didn't talk we didn't talk about it after that it was it was essentially we wanted you to know this information and then okay now let's just move on and pretend like you're our job which in some ways is great but also not so great when there is that need to discuss it there are questions you know that I had and by not ever

13:16talking about it it's not that it needs to be and you know you know every moment of my life discussion but it also needs needs to be a discussion um I did not feel I was allowed to ask those questions or that those questions would be okay I definitely felt that it was you know taboo and I would I would be hurting someone or or get in trouble for asking these questions and just just knew um or talk or

13:51you know just talking about it in general so I did I did talk about being adopted to other people like I didn't keep it a secret from other people although I know my parents didn't necessarily like me even telling other people I was adopted that was still kind of a thing you really didn't do but um but it didn't bother me it didn't bother me to talk about it with other people I just wouldn't talk about it with them because it felt felt I wasn't allowed to that doesn't mean they

14:25said don't talk about it but yet there was just kind of the implicit feeling yeah exactly um so and I would you know have fantasies and um daydreams about siblings and about my parents and and all of those things that I would either just dream about in my head or would um I would write about sometimes but I would then make sure that I hid that or threw it away um or

14:59or weave that into my pretend play you know or um or things like like that like a funny situation I think but I was in probably probably middle school early middle school age playing you know with some girlfriend hanging out with some girlfriends whatever and we were being silly and talking to some boy that was a friend of one or something and so we began this whole little thing about that I had a twin you know that I had a twin and we lived in separate you know homes and

15:36I don't know just I can't remember all the details obviously but some little pretend thing that I remember and that that came a little bit out of wondering like when could we have been separated at birth you know because you just you just don't know you don't know anything yeah so you had no pictures do you have like names anything okay wow not a thing nothing I didn't know where I was born I knew well my birthday was I was at then didn't know where didn't know to who didn't know why

16:07um so hard yeah um just a really quick side note have you ever seen three identical strangers on yes it's a CNN documentary I thought of that as you were talking I was just like wow like so hard not knowing anything I'm just gonna throw in a really quick plug it is a really good there's a really good documentary in my opinion I don't know what do you think of it yes yes I really like it it's really informative it's heartbreaking but yeah right I think um I always

16:37hope that when people who are who are not adopted or are not familiar with issues with with an adoption um that they recognize how unethical that was because I feel like I've heard some people talk about it and they just they focused on the fact that it was really cool that they found each other and really missed out on this big fact that this was super unethical for them to separate so much loss yes they never told the families they never told the children I mean those yeah and and

17:12still blocking those um files away to this day yeah major issue anyway so I just always hope that people don't miss is like they they get so excited and that's so typical on the sensational part yeah right they get so excited about the the reunion that they completely miss and dismiss the you know ethics and trauma and pain and all of that that happened long before so it's it's quite a hard

17:46juxtaposition to see people yeah that will they're like celebrating it celebrating adoptions and then celebrating reunions at the same time like I have a really hard time understanding that because it's like you're you're celebrating them being separated in order to celebrate them being reunited it seems a little messed up I still can't get over the fact that you didn't have conversations about being adopted that's really wow yeah and then I think that was um you know not all that rare for those

18:20of us that were adopted in that time period um I mean there's a lot there's a lot that of adoptees during that time and before that didn't even know they were adopted so obviously there weren't complications going on there it's very interesting and especially in an adoption where same race adopted at birth you know if if you looked very different so if you have a different race a different

18:54skin color um or you know weren't adopted till you were two if you look similar enough to your adoptive family then people can't tell and it's not talked about is there anything that you wish your adoptive parents have been trained on differently before adopting or trained on period I would say there's there's probably several things I could go into but one thing that I think would have been really important and would have

19:28is still something that is important that maybe isn't taught a lot to adoptive parents is that while you are adopting this child and taking them to your home to raise them they have another have another family so when that adoption happens although legally that severs all of those ties

20:04and that's a whole other issue we can discuss but although that legally severs all those ties biologically they will always and forever still be the child of that other family as well so you should you should you know understand that there's a need there to to know about their family and their heritage traditions and just where they came from there's you know possibly a desire there

20:41you know possibly a desire there to reconnect with them reunite with them at some point in time like you should you should expect that rather than thinking oh no we adopted them they're our child they're never gonna want to have anything to do with that family for whatever reason regardless of how you feel about that family it's like you should more expect the need and the desire for them to know their family than not and obviously it's it's up to each individual

21:18what they need and what they desire but you should just expect that it would be there rather than expecting it wouldn't be there i know my my adopted mom so i'll backtrack a little bit here and say that you know i am in reunion however since we didn't talk about being adopted growing up i also didn't ever talk about searching or being in reunion so i searched from the time i went off to

21:53college and i found my maternal side of the family and was reunited with them for about 10 years before i ever was able to talk to my adoptive mom to let her know i had even searched much less but i had found them or that i knew them and i have been reunited so and i by the time i told her i found my paternal side as well so um so my adopted mom had told me once when we're now talking about

22:24my reunion because we now have been able to discuss things not everything but um we've been able to discuss things not everything but most things so to say and she said you know she thought that that if she was adopted she would have never had any desire to find out anything about her first family or to to find them like well right because you grew up with your family so you don't know

22:54what they're like and not have them there right so she thought i guess that yeah wouldn't have that need i don't know but um once she has actually seen me in reunion so she has actually spent time with me and some biological family she's quite amazed at how much we're similar and kind of how she needed that and she actually now said she thought she would not have wanted to know but now

23:25she's like i think yeah i probably actually would have wanted to know too so it's very interesting but i just it's kind of surprising that i don't know i guess that adopted parents just aren't taught that and flung on that more and trying to help them empathize with the fact that it it it's hard for you to understand that need or want to know where you came from when you you've always known where you came from like that's a privilege that you have that that we don't and

24:00you're gonna have to just kind of recognize that that need exists and and not take it as a slight towards you or you know a fence towards you by us wanting or needing to know our family and our our origins absolutely that's great advice so can you tell us about what reunion has been like for you yeah so it it's been both great and um and hard at the same time so i

24:34have the reunion with my family's husband great um i think what has been hard is that going through the reunion has allowed me to start asking some questions and digging into things to where i have discovered things about myself that i wish i would have known sooner in life because nobody was talking about adoption or the trauma of separation and all of that and um becoming more

25:09aware of the secrets and um unethical actions and things that that took place and just that do take place in general in the industry but specifically even in my own adoption so i had a great uh adoptive family my parents were wonderful and we had a big family and i i love them all it's great right i have a great biological family we've reconnected and um there was no you know rejection

25:48there anything like that so so that's been wonderful but painful to see um the things that the things that you begin to learn as you begin to uncover that story and kind of bring all the pieces together so i think i think people typically see reunion as the solution or the what's going to bring healing and it it can and does in certain respects but then can also open

26:23up other wings or create other issues or or or just amplify issues that exist so and that that's not just within that's not just between you know me and my um adoptive family so my adopted dad has passed away so now it's just my adopted mom that i have now but it's not just between us it's not just between myself and biological you know parents and siblings um and it's also me and my

26:54spouse with me and my children and all of that is just me and the church it it really um causes you to look at things with a whole different perspective and a whole different view of good and bad you know it's both so it felt like a really like just completely life-altering experience that sounds like yes definitely and do you think that you were expecting that or

27:30maybe to some extent or hmm i well as far as as far as what would happen in contacting biological family i tried to keep my expectations low because i just didn't know what would happen and obviously it can can go either way you know so i tried to be very aware that anything could happen and to not be disappointed so kind of keep those expectations low in that

28:00regard but um i think so much of the media that you see is just the immediate reunion that that is typically in the media shown as a a joyous occasion and um you don't really you don't really you don't really you don't really think a lot past that you don't really think what is it going to be

28:30like not just on the day that we first see each other but when christmas rolls around how does that look what's it going to be like when there's family reunions or when you talk to to your children about grandparents and how who is related where and um you don't think about

29:00the you know time where for me you know my time's always just pretty much had to be devoted to one family and now i have you know my adoptive family i've got uh obviously i'm married so i've got my family got marriage and i've got my maternal side of my biological family and my maternal side of my biological family and just you know all of these different things are where you feel so torn and bold and i i don't really think i expected expected that and i don't know i i think i just

29:34didn't really know what to expect beyond that initial initial um meeting and and connecting with each other and you know you're always you're you're just hopeful that it's going to go really well and it did um but then okay what now yeah so what advice would you give to adoptees who are starting this process or who are in this process trying to navigate these new relationships

30:07what advice would you have brace yourself for anything um really try to to remember that the reaction of of anyone that you might contact in your family um whether that be you know good or bad especially if you get a bad reaction that that has nothing to do with you you know it it's

30:40not about the way you contacted them it's not about um you know who you are or anything of that nature it's it's usually has to do with you know whatever is going on in their own life currently or what has you know gone on in their lives in these years that you've been apart um there's so so many things that that play into that decision of someone to say yes i would like to connect or i

31:10would like to start a relationship that has absolutely nothing to do with you as a person because at that point they don't they don't know as a person but i just see that so many adoptees upon getting a rejection and and i'm speaking i'm speaking to this as something i actually didn't experience so i hope i'm not speaking out of turn but i've heard so much from you know fellow adoptees that feel so it feels so personal right because even when we when we go to contact our families i

31:47i've done this too it's like you you kind of feel like you're sending them a resume at first because you're trying to tell them um here's here's a little bit about me and you know i really am wonderful and um not a not a crazy person and i'm not here for your money and i'm not here for anything other than just i want to know where i came from and and all of that and so you're you're you're so trying to win them over and to get them to allow you the opportunity just to get to know them to speak with

32:20them and to have that denied that's that's very painful i mean i like i said i didn't experience that thankfully but um i i can empathize like i kind of feel like i'm not the only one who's empathize like i kind of feel like you you sort of prepare for either way so you kind of know how that's gonna come if that's what happens it's just gonna be really painful and feel very personal

32:51to be rejected in that way especially knowing if it's your parent it's like that's your own parent and they're saying no i'm not you're not even worthy of me speaking to or getting to know so um but that's not what they're saying when when they say no to reunion what they're saying is i have issues i haven't dealt with so reunion is not okay with me right now uh you know i have

33:24life situations going on that reunion is not okay with me right now um you know i have kept secrets that i'm afraid may come out on so i can have a union right now that's what they're saying they're not saying you are unworthy but rather that they are unavailable so that's really well said yeah so in your experience what do you think some ways are that others can support adoptees and help

33:55them address different traumas and different struggles as we try to move on and make things better i think one of the biggest things is validation just being validated and in the fact that we have needs that we have desires that we have trauma um because so many times we are even we become aware of it ourselves we're met with uh dismissal of that or silencing of that we want to

34:30talk about it and so just that validation that our feelings are are okay yeah whether they be happy feelings sad feelings difficult feelings confused feelings um we have all of that because we are human beings just like anyone else and how you would feel about any uh intricate situation like adoption so um i think the validation is huge and you know just just listening and being

35:08supportive of of what our needs are i think also if you're someone that is is closely related to the adoptee it could be um in one of the the parent roles or a sibling or a spouse and you find that you're struggling with what the adoptee is going through i think it's important also for you to find help outside of the adoptee so we are dealing with a lot with being adopted with being

35:49in the union um um just coming out of the fog or gaining awareness of of more of ourselves in the adoption industry and things like that that we just really have so much on us it's it should not then be our burden to bear to have to worry about your issues with with our situation

36:19hopefully that makes sense i think that's really important to recognize yeah and unfortunately we a lot of times end up being the caretaker for everyone and kind of playing you know referee or feeling that you know like tug of war like we're stuck in the middle and everyone's just pulling us in every direction and um needing us to you know everyone needs us to be this and to be that and to be this and to be this and we're trying trying to do that but um but if they can

36:53if they can work on their own issues especially with someone else a therapist a friend you know counselor whatever that would take a huge burden off of us because we already kind of feel like we are you know possibly causing trouble to people or you know that people-pleasing tendency that a lot of us have and just wanting to hold on to those relationships and afraid

37:23someone will leave us so we will do anything to make sure that everyone's feeling okay and everyone's doing okay um and when they're not and we're just we're trying to please this person and that person all these other people and it can be that can be very very very stressful i think that's been for me one of the hardest parts of being in the community yeah wow so what do you think some of the biggest challenges are in the adoption community as a whole? i think it is you know coming together to to be able to speak

38:00to what the issues are in the adoption industry and with the laws that we have there's we really need everyone working together and it it can be very hard because obviously the sides kind of get pitted against each other many times and even in trying to work together it it can fall apart real quickly and it's not easy to get to the bottom of it

38:35it it can fall apart real quickly so i think that just the biggest thing is for us all to to be as empathetic as we can with each person situation no matter what position they are and to just try and work together to to to better things and obviously i'm an adoptee but for the adoptees you know um you know i'm a little biased of course but

39:11we we are the ones that had no choice in the situation and so you know we need others to help us to come alongside of us whether it be supporting us just in our needs of dealing with the trauma that we have or our needs in reunion or our our needs in our work to change the laws regarding you know adoption and to records and all of those kind of things just to to make things

39:42to where it truly is what is best for the adopted person absolutely that's so important it really should be about the adopted person and not about anyone else right i mean that should absolutely be the top focus all right so you're talking a little about adoption laws and i'm wondering do you want to talk more about things that you're doing to advocate with that i thought that was

40:14really fun before we hopped on absolutely i'm currently working with the georgia alliance for adoptee rights so we formed in 2021 and myself and and courtney humbach chair the committee and we have a really just a great group of people that are part of our committee and we do have adoptive parents biological parents and adoptees all working together on this committee

40:45uh working well together i will say and we all hope to change the law in georgia so that our let's say our as adoptees our sealed original birth certificates would be available to us as adults so that is currently what we're working on it's very important this is this fight has been going on for decades across the country and and in other countries as well and even in georgia this

41:20has been this is this has been attempted a few times before but we are very hopeful there has been several states recently that have have joined the the side of opening original birth certificates to adoptees and we're hoping georgia is going to be next i think we're sitting at 11 or 12 states that are currently open the latest with louisiana and so you know we just

41:55we need to get georgia open and we hope to also then continue that work throughout the southeast in the states that that aren't open as well so um but alabama louisiana those are open we're going to work on georgia hopefully you know working then also with some other adoptees and in other states so that that every every adoptee can have you know equal rights not only

42:26amongst adoptees but also to our non-adopted peers so because it's the only thing that keeps us from having our own birth certificate our own identity is the fact that we were adopted so we hope to change that i know one of the people we've spoken to recently who is who is telling us some of their story they were adoptive parents and they had adopted a son in louisiana and a daughter in georgia

42:59and when they this law passed in louisiana their their daughter was so excited for her brother about his ability now as an adult that he will be able to get his original birth certificate however this little girl also knew at the same time her birth certificate is still sealed in georgia and and it is an open adoption and she does have access to her biological mother

43:30but yet she can't have her own birth certificate and so here in her own household you can see these two adoptees in their own household have two children and one of them is a mother these two adoptees in their own household have different rights simply based on the state that they were born in adopted in so um we could change that well i think that's so exciting that you're working so hard on that it's really important so how do you think your adoption experiences have

44:01shaped your life your relationships where you are right now that's a that's a complex question so some of which i think adoption has affected my life in in ways that i may still even be unaware and and then there are ways that i was unaware for a long time but then have have become more aware of as an adult and especially in reunion definitely definitely in relationships because we

44:36because we know when we read about and learn about trauma how that affects us and how that causes us to be in relationships with other people and how we handle those things so there's so many things that i knew about myself but i just thought it was just me i didn't i didn't know you know it was was

45:09this biologically how i was how i would react or how i was supposed to be or did i learn this or something of that nature um and so many things i've come to to find it's like okay sure this was biological or um maybe this was biological but then this is how it was shaped by being in my adoptive family where it may have been shaped differently being with my biological family

45:41and it can obviously be hard to to know if that would have been the case or not uh but then it's those things that i have come to be aware of that were shaped by the trauma those are the things that i think have bothered me the most um realizing those especially that that people pleasing tendency uh thought that was just me that i just like to make people happy or

46:12or um most of my life friends right i would always have more uh male friends you know just just friends but that's who i would prefer to hang around with a lot of the time and uh thought that was probably just me but then i've come to kind of learn it's probably more of a trauma response and being separated from my mother and then having you know mother issues and things of that nature which makes me kind of sad because you then think back to how what would i be like

46:47without the trauma yeah how would i have done differently so i can work on that now obviously and uh work through my issues and and try to change the way i react now but at 43 years old my life has been already very much shaped by by that you know your marriage and how you relate to your spouse and relate to your children and just all of that and so it's very hard i have to

47:17really try and think and evaluate my own actions in my own home on a regular basis to think about you know how am i reacting to that because of trauma am i parenting my children a certain way because of trauma am i doing what's best for them um how is this affecting them how is this affecting affecting my spouse and everyone around me so yeah it's this stuff yeah thank you so much can you share before we

47:53wrap up about the podcast that you're working on absolutely so uh another adoptee and myself we've been working on a podcast called adoption rewritten where we are reading children's books mainly but possibly some some other books that are adoption related some more loosely than others they may also be trauma related things of that nature but mostly looking at books that

48:26adoptive parents in particular may read to their children there's a lot of books out there and tends to overwhelmingly be written by adoptive parents um these books for adoptive children and so we've been reading those and taking a look at you know what's done well in the book what has not done so well uh some are our older books so the very first book that will be featured

48:56in our in our first podcast is the chosen baby so that was a book that was popular from you know the 50s 60s 70s and so it's a much older book so looking at the narrative in that book versus newer books that exist and and how the narrative has changed and um has it really changed is it is it better do they handle it well what books would be well suited for adoptive families to read or

49:26not and kind of making some recommendations on those um from our perspective as adoptees and as adult adoptees who have have worked through these things so because i know i will i will say you know as a child that that's one perspective that you have and then as an adult you have a different perspective so trying to just work from from our experience and um our our viewpoint to

49:58give adoptive parents a heads up hey this might be triggering or um this might be helpful and and hopefully hopefully it'll be a podcast that will um help adoptive families to have have good conversations around adoption using well-written children's books that sounds so amazing i am really excited for your podcast we will let our listeners know when it's ready because it sounds like such a great resource absolutely thank you well thank you so much

50:29for being on the show we really appreciate you thanks so much i appreciated talking with you and learning more about you too and we were talking earlier and um just hopefully this was helpful uh to you and to your listeners thank you so much thank you again to jamie for joining us for this episode i really enjoyed listening to their

51:03conversation so much of what she had to share was i think really relevant for us as parents of four adoptees one of the things that she shared that it's just kind of resonating with me and i'm glad that it kind of changed how it did but she said that her adopted mother at one point said you know i think if i were adopted i don't think i would have searched or looked for my birth family but when her adoptive mother met her birth mother um her perspective changed a lot and then

51:36she you know she talked about how uh she could then understand why she wanted or needed that connection i thought that was interesting yeah yeah that important piece of your identity that comes from knowing about your biological family and your roots and having a connection to that part of yourself i really appreciated the dialogue she brought about how important that is and how integral that is for an adoptee i think another thing she highlighted that we've seen in our

52:10children at times is that often um maybe it took her a while to understand this but often adoptees kind of want to please everybody or like kind of say yes to everything um in making friendships or relationships those type of things and um i don't know if i had ever really connected some of the dots that i was able to as she shared her perspective so i'm really grateful that she shared that um and for me as a parent now um in some way i think i can maybe better provide

52:43or be more understanding about the way our children might behave yeah try to help them recognize that tendency to want to please everybody and find ways to take care of themselves and not worry about everybody else like that yeah that's really important yeah i thought she brought so many interesting perspectives and really just such a valuable voice to hear so thank you so much jamie for talking to us we really appreciate it we hope that you continue

53:14listening to adopt you voices we'll be back in two weeks with another adopt you voice on the podcast thanks so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project

53:49so

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