Adoptee-Centered Language

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 58. We're the Nelsons. I'm Lanette. And I'm Shaun. In this episode, we'll be talking about adoption language, and we'll be talking a little bit about the history of kind of some of the different schools of thought when it comes to talking about adoption. We'll also be sharing some insights adoptees have shared with us as we've reached out to them, as we've researched their thoughts, and as we've talked to them. We're excited to explore that aspect of adoption language in this episode.

0:45We've been wanting to do an episode talking about adoption language for quite a while, and it's just such a big and kind of heavy topic that we've really wanted to take our time and do our research and especially talk to adoptees. And as we were reading about these different kinds of adoption language that have traditionally been used pretty much since about the 1970s here in the United States, it was really interesting because to me, that I was reading about them, I kept thinking, wow, this school of thought is really like centered on adoptive parents and their feelings.

1:25And then this other school of thought is really focused on biological parents and their feelings. And of course, that kind of leaves us a gaping hole where it's, what about adoptees? Like, why aren't we focusing our adoption language on adoptees? Well, I'm at the end of the day, like, we're all involved in this adoption triad as adoptive parents, birth parents or biological parents, and this child. And really, at the end of the day, everything should be focused on the experience of this kid, this human, this individual, right?

1:58Absolutely, yeah. And how they maybe want to talk about it will differ than how other members of the triad will probably want to talk about it. And I think it's really important that we give a lot of weight and heed to the adoptee's voice. I agree, and I would take that even farther and say our adoption language should really just be centered on what adoptees want. But of course, that also creates a challenge because adoptees are not all of the same mind and they're not all having the same experience.

2:28And there are so many different thoughts on adoption language from adoptees. So it's not like we can make a big list. There are lists. There are lots of lists on adoption language. But ultimately, if we're trying to focus our dialogue around adoptees and what they prefer and what makes them feel more comfortable, we can't operate off of a list. We have to be sensitive. We have to be listening to and asking questions when we're talking to adoptees to try to tailor our language to be what they want, what they desire to hear.

3:06Yeah. So you've mentioned that we've done a little bit of research and there's several different schools of thought. Yeah, so let's talk about that. Yeah, let's dive in. What's one approach? So the one that we were introduced to first, and I think most adoptive parents would also be in this pool, is positive adoption language. And from what I've gathered, positive adoption language was really created by adoption professionals in the 1970s. And typically, in the past, the language that had been used was like natural mother and like what you kind of still hear, right?

3:47It's still a bit reminiscent. And so positive adoption language was this quest to try to reshape adoption language to, I think, I would guess, I would assume maybe that the goal of it was to change feelings and experiences for other people regarding adoption. Yeah, in our research, I read that the term birth mother was actually first used by a Nobel Prize winning author in 1956. So this is a ways back, right?

4:24Yeah. But it was by an adoptive mother. It wasn't by a birth mother or biological mother. It was coined by an adoptive mother in a book. So interesting. Yeah. Well, and yeah, I remember our very first adoption intake meeting where we sat down with a few other people who were considering adoption. And a bunch of social workers just talked to us about different things we needed to know about adoption. And one of the things was positive adoption language, which I was not familiar with.

4:57And so they talked about, yeah, you say birth parents that are real parent, instead of saying natural parents like biological parent. And I don't know, just like this list. I don't need to go through the whole list. But yeah, you can look it up. But there were some really interesting ones like instead of saying, if you're a biological parent, instead of saying my child, you say my child who I placed for adoption, which doesn't really roll off the tongue. Let's be honest here. Not supernatural, but.

5:28Or instead of saying I'm in reunion, let's say I'm making contact with my biological family. I do think I will say though that having the conversations with social workers in the beginning of our journey and with other adoptive parents around positive adoption language did shift my mind to be thinking about other members of the adoption triad more. I think that I think that as an insecure, young, mid twenties, hopeful dad, I was really focused on me being a dad and you being a mom.

6:01And I probably didn't even think about the language I would use or the language that birth parents or adoptees would use. And so for me, it was really nice to be able to kind of step back and think, oh, wow, I do need to be really intentional about the language that I'm using. Yeah. And it all stems out of respect and love for other people. Absolutely. Yeah. And words matter. I would say that I wouldn't completely agree with all of the language that we were suggested to use at that point, but I didn't know anything else at that point. And so we were pretty hardcore.

6:42Like, once we learned that we were like, this is the language you should use. So we tried to teach it to our families and make sure people in our community understood it, which I think is a good thing. Yes. It doesn't really leave much room for other feelings. And I mean, even in its name, positive adoption language, which it is sometimes also called respectful adoption language, which I think is a better goal. If your goal is to frame language in a respectful way, that's a better goal than framing it in a positive way. Yeah. If you want to let adoptees feel whatever they're feeling. Yeah, I can actually one experience.

7:19This is probably, I don't know, two years ago and are now nine, nine year old said something to me. And he said, but what about my real dad? And he said it like that. And at first I was like wanting to correct him and say, Oh no, you mean your birth father. And then I kind of had to step back and say, well, this is his reality. Right. And the, maybe those are the terms or words he needs or wants to use to express. Right.

7:49And so my first instinct was to say, I am your real father. Um, but letting me maybe my pride subside a little bit and saying, Oh, you're talking about. And then I said, is biological father's name. And can we kind of just went on from there, but yeah, ever since then I've been a little bit more focused on how our children refer to, um, their biological parents or their birth parents. Yeah. Well, and even with our kids, it's so different from kid to kid, even though we're all in the same household.

8:22And Shaun and I are modeling the same language. Of course we try to pick up their cues and follow their leads, but there's four different kids with four different perspectives. Yeah. And even with our four kids, I feel like we do hear some differences. We have one child who gets very upset if you refer to her biological parents as her real parents. Um, and she just, it's like, no, all of my parents are real and that really gets her goat.

8:56And then we have another child who for a few years, not the one that you were just mentioning, but another child who would just always ask about, well, what about my first mom? And he, I don't think we had ever used the term first mom or first with him, but it was just what felt natural to him. And when he would ask about her, that's how he referred to her. So had to try to mirror that and yeah, respect where he was coming from on that. I like what you said. How that's the reality. You just need to respect that and be cognizant of that.

9:31Yeah. We learned a lot as we implemented positive adoption language in our household and it's kind of morphed and changed over time. So you mentioned, but I do also just want to once again, drive in that point that it's called positive adoption language typically, but I do prefer the idea of framing it more as respectful adoption language. Because I do think some of it goes a little bit too far, right? Like not calling a child that you place your child anymore or I don't know. It seems a little bit micromanage-y. I can see how this language bothered people.

10:06And so another school of thought, of course, emerged and that was called honest adoption language. So honest adoption language is really what I would read as a response to positive adoption language. And it's coming from biological parents who are saying, hey, this language that you're calling positive or respectful really doesn't respect me and it doesn't respect the loss that I've had or an adoptee and their loss that they've had.

10:40It doesn't really acknowledge that loss and it doesn't truly respect our experiences. And so as people, especially biological parents, began researching the adoption industry and this language and thinking about it more, there became more of a consensus to not use that language that was coined by the adoption industry. And instead, they created this new school of thought called honest adoption language, where instead of saying birth parents, you would say, it's basically like the opposite on a lot of it.

11:15Instead of saying birth parents, you would say natural parents or instead of saying birth mother, mother or father or parent. And instead of referring to adoptive parents as parents, you would refer to them as adopters or adoptive parents or people who adopted. And so it's very, very, it's flipped. Yeah. Yeah. So focused primarily on birth parents. Yeah. I mean, I think it really is. And I think that's reasonable when the adoption industry was and still can be so dismissive of these biological parents and their feelings.

11:55And so, yeah, it seems to me, and we're not birth parents and so we're not like authorities on this and we did talk to a lot of adoptees for this episode, but we did not specifically reach out and talk to many birth parents about language for this episode. So feel free to reach out and share your thoughts too. Because we would love to hear them. But yeah, it's this interesting dialogue between these two schools of thought where you have different people with different experiences and it's just kind of a bit of a clash.

12:28Yeah, I'm kind of thinking of our youngest birth mother. And that's her preferred term for it right. When we were kind of setting boundaries in the very beginning of our relationship, our three older children called her birth moms by their first names. And she was like, Oh, I don't want him to call me by my first name. That feels weird. Why doesn't he call me be ma. I love that short for birth mom and birth birth father, we actually call them be pop.

13:01Yeah, our little guy calls them and it's really sweet. Yeah. And so I think it's important that that each of our children's biological parents feel her feel heard, and that we respect what they're asking. At the same time, we need to make sure that we're focusing on our kids too. And if at some point our youngest says that feels weird for me to call her that or him that, then then we'll all have a conversation and talk together right Yeah, of course. Yeah. And of course, an adoptee should be in the driver's seat about what language is being used for their story. But yeah, so a lot of the language and honest adoption language.

13:40For me as an adoptive parent seems a little bit weird. Things like, instead of saying someone was placed for adoption, you say surrender to adopt, surrender for adoption or lost to adoption. Separated by adoption. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. And instead of saying was adopted, which is one of the preferred terms for positive adoption language. It's is adopted. So it continues to be part of their identity forever. It's the idea behind that. Yeah, instead of talking about an adoption triad, honest adoption language talks about adoption as more of a transaction.

14:15And so yeah, it's very interesting. You can definitely hear a lot of trauma behind this language and a lot of people who have been mistreated, honestly, is what I hear when I see this. So as we've talked about, I think that what this all really boils down to is that we're focusing our thought maybe on some of the wrong things. Of course, we should be thinking about the language preferred by biological parents. And of course, we should be listening to that and caring about that and respecting that.

14:45Honestly, I think adoptive parents, we just need to prioritize adoptees and birth parents over themselves in these conversations. Yeah, in that order, I think. Yes, absolutely. We need to be aware of we need to be seeking the preferences of the adoptees and birth parents in our lives as we're using language. And again, it's really hard. We can't just all the times talk about biological parents and refer to them as birth parents or biological parents or whatever, because different people are going to have different preferences.

15:16And so we do our best and mirror it and try to respect that. But it's hard. It's definitely work. And I believe adoptive parents really have the responsibility to put in that work and focus on it and make it something that we care about enough to really continue working on. Yeah, I think when it comes to the honest adoption language, there really can be a lack of focus on the adoptees. Like if we're if we're listening to adoptees, they may be saying that, well, I want to call my adoptive parents my real parents or or I don't always want to be defined by being adopted.

16:02And so I don't want that to be like the primary thing about me as a defining factor. Yeah. Well, and of course, it's going to be different, too, right? There's some adoptees that I'm sure would really align with that. And that's valid. But yes, most of the adoptees that we have talked to and we've tried really hard on our podcast to have a good mix of different thoughts and experiences, people who have had positive experiences, negative experiences and big mixes of everything.

16:34And I feel like the vast majority of adoptees we've talked to definitely don't fall into either of these categories 100% right like positive adoption language is extreme and then honest adoption language is extreme. So we've looked at these kind of different route of different approaches, positive adoption language. Yeah, the competing ideas. Yeah. So let's now focus on adoptee centered language. And of course, like you said in the beginning, we're not necessarily going to give a list of everything. But what what does that actually sound like or look like?

17:10Yeah. So first, let's start with some things that I don't think we've talked about on the podcast before. These are some things that I've heard recently that were new to me and that were some great aha moments, really. And so recently I heard some adoptees talking about using the words adopted versus adoptive. So mixing them up. So the word adoptive implies choice, while the word adopted does not imply choice.

17:43And so the idea is, instead of calling an adoptive parent, the adopted parent, you have to make sure you use that IBE ending right, because there's choice when a parent decides to adopt. But with a child, or an adoptee, they are an adopted child, because they didn't have that choice. So instead of calling them the adoptive child, the ED. So I thought that was an interesting distinction. It's something I hadn't ever thought about before. But we had a couple of adoptees bring that up.

18:13Yeah, I think personally, I naturally would say it that way. Yeah. But I have heard it switched though. And so yeah, that's good to be aware of. Yeah. What else? Something else that was brought to my attention was, and we haven't talked about this much, but when you have donor conceived children, referring to the person who was the donor of part of their genetic makeup, right? And so apparently, in some families, they'll just refer to that person as the donor. And instead of referring to them as a biological parent or whatever else. And so opening that door up is the preferred thing where you let the child decide how they want to refer to their biological parent, instead of just calling them the donor.

19:03So to be careful about that. Which, yeah, interesting. I don't, we don't really have experience in that. Yeah. So that was interesting to hear. We might do a future episode on that. Yeah. Also, othering adoptees. So like, people often like to talk about your own kids. And I'm saying that with quotes, right? Bigger quotes. Yes. So that's an example of othering adoptees. So if you have an adopted child or a foster child or a donor conceived child, the idea that they're not really like, like your own, right? In the quotes, because they're not a biological child of yours.

19:48So for example, if somebody is introducing their family and they say, I have six children, I have three, and they say, I have three biological children and three adopted children. Yeah. Yeah. Like othering them like that. Or, or saying, yeah, this is my daughter and then this is my other child who's whatever. Yeah, that's obviously awkward. So yeah, just making sure that people are aware that there are lots of ways to belong and people can belong to you in all kinds of ways. And it doesn't have to be this big explained thing when you're talking to others.

20:25Another one that we've talked about with adoptees and Lanette kind of referred to this earlier, but is the term real. And the vast majority, the vast majority of adoptees we've talked to are very uncomfortable with the word, using the word real, because we're all real. Right? We have real adoptive parents. We have real biological parents or birth parents. Everybody is real. And so, I mean, I think most people within the adoption triad or adoption constellation get that.

21:01And we get a lot of, a lot of people outside of the adoption world that use that word. But yeah, as much as we can help that be dissolved from the vocabulary. Yeah. Yeah. The word real. Something else, and this is actually a tangent. The importance, this is for adoptive parents and it's coming from me as an adoptive parent. This one's not from an adoptee. But it's really important to remember that a mother is not a birth mom before she places her baby for adoption. So if you're talking to a mom and she's pregnant and thinking about making an adoption plan.

21:39She's still a mom. She, and she is a mom. And of course she's still a mom if she places two, but she's not a birth mom. And she's only a birth mom after she's signed to be a birth mom. I see a lot of people online who will refer to expectant mothers as birth parents and that can be considered coercive and just a little heads up to not. Yeah, not not refer to them. Not birth parents. I think that's really valid. And when, when you give them that label before they place their baby.

22:11I think there is probably some extra pressure. And while that may be their plan that they're choosing adoption beforehand. We want them to be able to make that choice. Without any coercion. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's really great that you brought that up. Thank you. Another term that we hear the adoptees kind of struggle with is using the word unwanted. Do you want to speak to that? Of course they're going to struggle with that. I think anybody would struggle with being referred to as unwanted.

22:45Don't use that. Use compassion and how you speak. Yeah. Like, oh, you know, this baby was an unwanted baby or an unwanted pregnancy. Yeah, yeah. Just find better words. There are many, many better words out there and you can find them. Yes. I think we might have discussed a little bit about instead of saying someone is adopted or they are adopted saying was adopted and this one I think there's probably a lot of people on both sides of whether they prefer to be called someone who is adopted or someone who was adopted.

23:28Many of the adoptees we've talked to go both ways, right? Like, I think that it kind of gets mixed right? Like, you might refer to yourself as, hey, I was adopted in one conversation and then the next say, oh yeah, I am adopted. So I think we might get a little too nitpicky about these things. You know, it's kind of interesting as I think about different conversations I've had with people. I could be completely off. So this is obviously not research based, but I feel like most people that were adopted and have a closed adoption use the terms are and am and those pronouns rather than what like the present tense.

24:13Yeah, progressive tense instead of the past and that many that have open adoptions refer to as was interesting. And I wonder if that's part of like adoption agencies and their role in language or if that's part of having an open adoption. Yeah, I wonder. So interesting. I don't know. Yeah, I wonder if having some ambiguity in your adoption story makes it more present tense. Yeah, it's still part of this unresolved or unsolved part of you.

24:45Anyway, again, that was just kind of my ramblings, but I have noticed that in more than a few cases. And this last one, again, I feel like it should be pretty obvious, but you don't refer to a biological child as your own child and then other those adopted kids as not your own. Right. Even when I talk to adoptees who have had really mixed or troubling experiences with adoption, they deserve to belong with all of their families, right?

25:23They deserve to have that sense of belonging. And I just feel like it's really sad when our society won't just let people belong in multiple spaces where they want to belong and need to belong. And so yeah, that's one of my big pet peeves. I've seen many adoptive parents on social media who it's kind of like the othering that we were talking about right where they just. Here's an example I see every once in a while, like when people are announcing that they're going to adopt sometimes in the paragraph below their Instagram picture, it says, well, we always hope to have our own children, but have now decided to adopt or what if your kid who you adopt reads your Instagram in a few years?

26:12And it's like out there for everyone to see that this kid is considered second best by you. Like how tragic? Yeah, I don't know. This might be too much of a tangent, but adoptive parents definitely need to be getting some counseling and help in addressing these feelings. If you're adopting and you feel like this is second best or this child is less than a biological child, you need to get help. And that's okay. And if it's like, yeah, help, they don't deserve that. Yeah. And if it's just, oh, well, I didn't intend that by using these words, then be more intentional or think more deeply about the words you're using.

26:48I saw and it's some people who I don't follow, but it just popped up on my feed because they look at so many adoption related Instagram profiles. This adoptive family was doing some kind of real or something. I don't know. I'm like an ancient person with all this technology, but they were doing something and they were like talking about how they have these biological kids. And then they adopted this kid and they're like, we love having an extra bonus child after having our own children or something.

27:19And an adoptee commented because I saw that and I was like, Ooh, that's sketch language. And I was already thinking about language right for this episode. And an adoptee actually commented on their post and said, Hey, I'm an adoptee. And that kind of language really bothers me. You might want to reconsider for your child's sake. And they were totally dismissive. I was furious. They responded. They did. They said so dismissive. We've talked to adoptees in our family and they don't care. It's not a big deal. I was like, really? Anyway, I remember coming home from work to that conversation. Yes, I was especially on this adoptee's behalf, right?

27:59And they spoke up and shared their own truth and we're just completely dismissed. So yes, I think the essence and the bottom line of what we want to share today is listen to adoptees. I know that seems like an ironic message because we are not adoptees. Touche. But we are doing our best to try to listen to adoptees and we just really want to encourage all of you too as well. Yeah, words matter. And some people may think that they don't. But we can't, we can't feel how other people feel. And that's, that's a hard thing to grasp.

28:41Being an adoptee is a very unique experience. Yeah. And there's a lot that comes with that time and time again when we talk to adoptees. It's just so apparent that there's a lot to unpack with being an adoptee. And we owe the adoptees in our lives the courtesy of using thoughtful language that is centered around them and their preferences. Awesome. So educate yourself, right? There's a lot of, there's a lot of information out there.

29:14Talk to adoptees. Yeah. Listen to adoptees. And we'll continue to bring adoptees voices to the podcast so that you can hear their, their preferences and their experiences. You can hear us trying to mirror their preferences and not always succeeding, but trying. Yep. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the two of us rambling about something that we care deeply about and that we're becoming more and more focused on and educated on. Yeah, thank you so much. We appreciate you listening. And if you want to share any of your thoughts about adoption language, please reach out. You can email us at openadoptionproject.gmail.com.

29:54We'll also have a post on our Instagram feed connected to this episode and we'd love for you to share some of your thoughts. Yeah, go ahead and adoptees, let us know what you think we got wrong and birth parents and yeah, just would love to hear what you think and what you're feeling. Great. Well, thanks again for listening to this episode of the open adoption project.

30:42Yeah.

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