Stuck Like Glue

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project where we talk about nurturing ongoing adoption relationships. We're the Nelsons, I'm Lynette. And I'm Sean. We're excited today to talk about bonding with a newly adopted baby. And we're also going to talk about some of the challenges that may come along with that, including post-adoption depression. And then in addition to that, we'll be talking a little bit about positive adoption language.

0:39So today we're going to go through and talk about the four different experiences we had with our four children. And how bonding went after we adopted each of them. With our first child, we adopted her. We've been talking about our experiences with that. And when we adopted her, she was in the NICU for her first about month of life. And so, yeah, yeah, it was so hard. And so when we brought her home, we were just so excited. I feel like we had these really high expectations and maybe rose-colored lenses as we imagined what life would be like finally being at home with our long-awaited baby.

1:20I can remember when she came home, it was awesome that we finally had our baby. We were finally at home. And for me, it was pretty quick. Like Lynette mentioned, it was difficult to be in the NICU. In our previous episode, we talked about always having other people around, mainly hospital staff. And that kind of made it hard to just sit back in a rocking chair and hold your baby and look into their eyes and those type of things that help create a connection.

1:50And so for me, when we got home, I was able to do some of those things that were really hard to do in the hospital. And bonding happened really fast for me. It was really, really instantaneous. She felt like my daughter and it was just a really awesome feeling. And for me, I would say my experience was different. So I felt definitely connected with our daughter instantly. And obviously that's grown over time, but I did feel connected and I felt like she was my daughter.

2:23But I also had some really real struggles, feeling a lot of guilt, feeling really sad when I thought about how her birth mom wasn't getting to experience these things with her. Just feeling so much guilt about that and wondering if I didn't deserve to be enjoying these things. And at that time, I didn't realize that what I was experiencing was post-adoption depression, which is actually a lot like postpartum depression.

2:53And a lot of the time, adoptive parents don't realize that post-adoption depression can happen. And it's pretty much the exact same as postpartum depression. But since adoptive parents don't have these same physical experiences that a biological mother has, it's easy to just write it off and say, oh, I can't be experiencing postpartum depression because I didn't give birth. However, adoptive parents, both moms and dads, can experience post-adoption depression.

3:23And I absolutely was experiencing that with our daughter when we brought her home. Parenthood, I don't think is ever really like what you imagine it will be. And for us bringing home baby after having been in a hospital on this very rigid schedule and nurses, you know, taking care of baby at night. And now we were at home and going through all of the regular parent things just a month delayed, waking up in the night, feeding, taking care of baby when we want to be sleeping, those type of things.

3:56All normal in parenting can add to some of the struggles that may accompany post-adoption depression. Well, and being in the hospital, we were really lucky to have so many wonderful nurses helping us. But at the same time, you're also subject to a lot of opinions. And so with our daughter, I actually tried to breastfeed. So I took these pills trying to induce lactation so that I could breastfeed. And I was hoping for more of a bonding experience with that.

4:27And I was hoping to have breast milk since it's better for baby and everything. Breast is best is what you always hear. And so I was trying to do all of these things and the pills I was taking were not good for me. I was very hormonal and just on edge for a few months and nothing was happening. I wasn't producing much at all. And well, I can remember like you were producing like half as much as you should have at any given time. And so you would feed and then baby would go to sleep and then you would pump.

5:01And baby would wake up and you'd feed a bottle and then you'd breastfeed again. And baby would go to sleep and you'd pump. And it was like, I remember you turning to me one time and said, I feel like a cow. This is not working. Like I can't, I can't just be producing milk 24 seven. This is really, really difficult. It's true, but it took me a while to get to that point. Like while we were in the NICU, there were these great nurses that were always cheering me on and saying, oh, it's so good that you're doing this.

5:31Don't give up. And I felt really, really guilty and bad about eventually giving up on that and saying, you know, these pills are making me crazy and it's not even working. And luckily we had a couple of friends who actually donated some breast milk to us, which helped assuage some of my guilt about giving up on that. But I'm sure that didn't help with all of the emotions that I was feeling as we came home. Definitely being first time parents, first time adoptive parents and going through all of the

6:04things that we were going through anyway, and then adding that on top, it just was, it was too much for us. So the other three babies were all formula fed the whole time. And our daughter was mostly formula fed, but those first couple of months, she did get some breast milk thanks to some great friends. And we are totally, totally okay with formula feeding our babies. We are very confident in formula now and we're absolutely okay with it. So whatever people may tell you, just let it go. And it's going to be just fine.

6:36Yep. Whatever you end up choosing. But for my sanity, I ended up having to forsake that and went with formula. It was good. I've actually read some studies since then that have made me feel better talking about how children in the same family who are formula fed versus breast fed, there's really not any cognitive difference in how they develop or how they perform in school. So indicating that it's probably more about nurture and how you care for your child and

7:06help them by reading to them. So help us understand a little bit more about post adoption depression and what that looks like, maybe what some of the symptoms are. So, I mean, I'm sure it's different for everybody, but for me, I think just the fact that I had this picture in my mind of what parenthood would look like. I planned on breastfeeding. I planned on all of these things and it just didn't work out that way, right? Like I didn't get to bring my baby home for a full month and I couldn't lactate.

7:36And I mean, it just was so overwhelming. I felt so powerless and I felt so much guilt about what I wasn't able to do, what I wasn't able to give her. I was often questioning, should I even be her mom? Should be better off with someone else? And just a lot of negative feelings. I had a really hard time. And so, yeah, some common post adoption depression symptoms include being depressed, having a depressed mood, weight loss or weight gain, loss of interest in typical social activities,

8:11physical activities, ongoing sadness, inability to sleep or maybe sleeping too much, changes in appetite, chronic fatigue, guilt, shame, becoming easily frustrated, easily agitated and irritated, being really over anxious. And I experienced a lot of those symptoms in those first few months. And over time, it did get better and it eventually went away. But the first few months, I had a really hard time and I look back at pictures and I can

8:42just see in my face that I wasn't me. Like I wasn't feeling happy and I was just so pulled down by these feelings. And so, I mean, I wish I could go back and tell myself, hey, what you're feeling is normal, but you need to get help. And unfortunately, we didn't get help. And I think that's probably because this isn't something that is very well known. And so, we're bringing this up here so that those of you who are considering adoption,

9:15those of you who've recently adopted or if you're related to or familiar with or friends with people who are adopting to know that this is real. It's common and getting help is important, especially early on and in the beginning. We're not licensed professionals, but we have experience. This firsthand and would recommend that those that may be struggling seek help connect with whether that's your caseworker or social worker or a licensed professional.

9:49Absolutely get help though. If you feel like you might be experiencing post adoption depression. At what point did that subside for you? I think that for me, as we got closer to finalizing her adoption, I was feeling a little better. Things started to get better. I was feeling a little better, things started to regulate better. I was like, okay, formula is not the devil. She's going to be okay with formula. Your hormones were probably regulating as well after. Yeah, I think my hormones were probably getting back to normal after those medications.

10:20Yeah, our relationship with her birth mom was really solid. We had some good visits and I started seeing that she was feeling good about her decision to. And I think that helped a lot with easing some of my anxieties and my guilt about that. So let's talk about baby number two. So baby number two, our first boy also had a NICU experience. We definitely were not introduced to parenthood in the easiest ways, but.

10:53I don't think anybody is. That's true. But he ended up having to be in the NICU for about two weeks and it was really hard. And I think this time it was a little bit harder for me because we had baby at home. I had work and a baby in the hospital. And so. Lynette and I were trying to juggle all of our responsibilities. Luckily, Lynette's mom helped out and was with either art or our daughter or our son when we couldn't be.

11:28When we adopted baby number two, I felt like I had a little bit more struggles. Connecting automatically bonding. Yeah. How about you? I felt an instant bond with our second child. I mean, I definitely felt like that connection with our daughter, but it was something that grew over time more. And I mean, all relationships grow over time, but the bonding with our daughter, it grew over time and as I felt better and more like myself, it was better as well.

11:58But with our son, I remember it was just instant. Like it felt very much like serendipity to me. I felt this really strong feeling like we're both spiritual people and I felt like I had known him before this life and this instant bond. It was really quick for me. And for me, like I can remember having really good experiences in the hospital alone with him. So I would typically go to work for my regular work day.

12:31I'd go home, have quick dinner, and then go down to the hospital, which was about a half an hour away from our home. And then I would stay at the hospital from like 7 PM to like 10 PM. Like 4 AM and then come home and sleep for a little bit. I would sleep a little bit in the hospital. But you weren't getting enough sleep. I'm sure that wasn't helping. So that I think really impaired the relationship or at least my ability to start connecting

13:01really well with him. So the hospital, those two weeks were pretty rough. Kind of like Lynette with our daughter, I was connected to him. Like I knew he was my son, but it didn't really feel real for me until a little while after he was able to come home. And again, I don't know if that was specifically because of the hospital stay or if it was just because, you know, we were having a second baby and it just didn't feel immediate.

13:31Well, and we'll share more of his story later, but I mean, his adoption was really last minute. We didn't have really any time to mentally prepare for it. It just happened and it was a great experience. But yeah, I don't think I would change anything about it, but we literally went from not knowing about him to him being our son within less than 24 hours. And so that was that was crazy. And like Lynette said, we'll talk about that in a future episode. Probably a month had gone by and it was there.

14:01Like my connection, like my, I had a boy, like I always wanted a boy and it was awesome. And I love that little dude. He's so good. All right. So next we'll talk about baby number three. So that experience was different as well. We knew that he was coming, but it was looking like his biological parents were going to decide to parent and we're not going to place with us. And so we did not expect him to be ours at that point.

14:35But then we got a phone call. It was kind of like our second child where it was like this last minute feeling, even though we had known about it. Yeah, we had about three weeks to prepare, but the last few days before his birth and right after he was born, we really didn't have any communication with his birth parents. And so we know how it is. We both have very creative imaginations. And so we see bits and pieces of the facts of what's happening and we tell ourselves different stories.

15:05Often those stories go to the worst case scenario. Say that's more so for me than you. In those moments, I could feel myself doing the same. It was pretty last minute feeling. We finally got to the hospital. It had a sweet experience with his birth mom, lots of hugs, lots of tears. Then he came home like immediately, which was really new for us. The first time we were in the hospital for a month and the second time we were in the hospital for two weeks. But this time there was no hospital stay for us and we came home.

15:36Yeah. So how do you think that affected your experience of bonding? For me, I think it was a lot easier. Granted, we had two other young children at home and sometimes Lynette and I will joke about thinking back to that time and it's a little fuzzy, a little blurry, our memory. We were pretty sleep deprived with three kids ages four and under. Yeah. And I don't think we ever imagined that that would be a scenario when we went down the adoption road that we would adopt three children in that amount of time.

16:09Yeah. But he was home and his brother and sister loved him so much and they were so cute and so sweet with him. For me, it was, it was really quick. Yeah, for me too. I think by that point, I just was a lot more confident and my role as an adoptive mom and my kids' birth parents and their love for them and how like I didn't feel threatened by any of that and I think that helped me a lot more with bonding, just feeling more confident and the love that I can offer my kids is good and the love their birth parents

16:41can offer them is good and more love is great. I don't know. I think that just helped me bond better without any of that guilt that I had with our first. And with all three boys, I think we were really eager to have their birth parents come for like that first visit afterward. And that I think is really thanks to our daughter's birth mom and her family. We recently were over at their house and had dinner with them and we kind of were reminiscing about those times and we all shared that, man, we really were being careful trying not to

17:12step on each other's toes and we were really cautious in the way that we would word texts. Finally, like that got really natural, but I, we really, really credit a lot of the relationships that we have in adoption because of the experiences that we had with them. So baby number four was a really sweet experience for me. This was the easiest bonding experience with a baby and with birth family that that we ever had. Do you want to share a little bit of the story? Oh yeah, I can share.

17:42So for me, I would say it was definitely an easy, natural bonding experience and I felt like the hospital experience and the relinquishment experience, there obviously couldn't be like a textbook experience because every situation is so different, of course, but it felt like textbook, like this is a really good way for things to work out. It was ideal for us. It really did feel quite ideal and all of our kids adoptions have been really incredible experiences, but yeah, with number four, we were able to spend about three full days in

18:16the hospital with our baby and with his birth mom and it was really sweet. We were all in the room together most of the time at night. She had us keep him in our room and she rested, but we were all together. Often he was able to get used to us, but also have his birth mom with him and it was a really neat way for us to all bond. We got to build a better relationship with birth mom and with baby, make that connection and yeah, it was beautiful and he wasn't in the NICU or anything and so we were able to

18:50hold him and connect. Yeah, we were in the hospital just a few days because he was born via C-section, but we had had connection with his birth parents for three months before he was born, which is the longest that we'd ever had to prepare for a child and to cultivate relationships and I think that that helped as well. We knew them. We'd visited with them. We had messaged with them on Facebook Messenger hundreds of times and so when we finally were

19:20at the hospital spending time with our son and his birth mom, it just felt so natural and so good. We just had really good meaningful conversations and connected on a really deep level. Yeah, I thought it was really incredible. I would say for me, I felt like I was able to bond with all three of our boys pretty instantly, but I did feel like our last baby was able to bond with us the most quickly. It just felt really organic.

19:51It was a really easy feeling experience to me and I mean, I can't speak for him. He's a baby and but it felt like a really great way to do things. So we thought that sharing those experiences could help highlight that each adoption looks and feels different and the way that we bond with and connect with each child will be different and it's okay if that's not happening immediately. That's okay if you're struggling.

20:21It's okay if it's perfect as well, right? And anything in between, but we just wanted to bring this to light because it's not something that gets talked about a ton. Most people after you've adopted a baby are just so interested in, you know, the process or the story of the adoption that the feelings about adoption and the feelings about parenthood often get overlooked in conversation. Well, and after adopting, usually you'll have a home visit from a caseworker to make sure that

20:53things are going well, that you're bonding with baby. And I do remember even though I felt like I was bonding well with all of my kids and I know that I was bonding well with my sons, I probably could have been doing better with our daughter. But I remember when we were asked, how's bonding going? It was always just kind of like this terrifying question, even though I knew it was going well with most of them just not wanting to say anything wrong or admit that maybe I needed some help with our daughter because I was afraid that would mean would lose her. And that's not likely to happen.

21:24I don't think that would be likely. Each adoption is going to look and feel different. In the end, at least in our situations, everything worked out beautifully. And I wouldn't change the story of how our children became our children and how we became deeply connected to each of them. One thing that for me was probably a bit of a trigger, especially with our first child while I was feeling a lot of insecurities in our first few months of parenthood was adoption language. When I would be talking about adoption with friends at church or in our neighborhood,

21:57often people would use language that's maybe not ideal to talk about our adoption story. And I became definitely very oversensitive about adoption language. And I think I'm in a much better place now where adoption language is about helping my kids to feel loved. A lot of the time, poor adoption language can put an adoptee in a really awkward spot. But it's not about me and my feelings. Adoption language should be about adoptees, right, and helping them to feel loved and

22:30valued. But there are a lot of terms that are really commonly used in our society that maybe aren't a good idea. We thought that we would share a few of those common terms, maybe some terms to avoid in language that you can use instead. And we tried really hard to be tactful when talking with friends or family and friends or family acquaintances about adoption when they would use inappropriate or less than

23:00great adoption language. And we would in nice and appropriate ways give correction. At least try to. I know sometimes I kind of snapped. That we all have our moments. So we're real. All right. So I would say the biggest term to avoid, this is my opinion, tell me what you think, Sean, is real. If you're talking about a real mother, a real father, a real parent, usually when people say real, they're talking about the biological parent. But sometimes people will try to build us up to and validate us and say, oh, you're the

23:34real parent. And there's not any fake parents in adoption. I would strongly suggest not using the word real when referring to people because people are all real. If you want to see a great YouTube video, search. If you wouldn't say it about a boob job, don't say it about adoption. You'll find it on YouTube. It's pretty hilarious. But really, there are a lot of things that people say, not with any malice for sure. Yeah. That can just make adoptive parents feel.

24:05I don't know what the word is. And word death. Yeah, maybe cringe worthy inside. It was death with our first. Yes, it was. But it's become more cringe. Like Lynette said, like this is all about our children and we want to make sure that we're using language that's going to help them feel loved. Like, for example, if someone says like an unwanted child or an abandoned child, those are going to impose feelings or they may give a title to our children that are really not

24:35true. Our children were not unwanted. They weren't abandoned. If people are saying like give up a baby or they're an abandoned baby or unwanted baby, we say birth parents or biological parents chose to place their baby for adoption. Another one that always gets my goat is, especially when these questions are asked in front of my kids, we often hear the question, why didn't their parents want them? Yeah, this is a really important one because we are their parents. And when people ask those type of questions, especially when our children are around,

25:10how confusing that is to them, right? Like my parents are standing right by me. This person is asking why my parents didn't want me. And it makes them maybe think or feel that my mom and dad aren't my parents and maybe question that. And so if we put ourselves in their shoes and somebody asked you why your parents didn't want you, that would be super confusing. So if we put ourselves in our children's shoes and think of that language specifically,

25:42I think we can all clearly understand why asking that question isn't appropriate. And then in addition to that, we also get asked why did their parents decide not to keep them? They love them and they wanted the best for them and they thought so long and so hard about the decision that they made. So they choose to place their children and if they choose not to parent rather than choose not to keep, that's the language we would recommend, right?

26:15To choose to parent a child or not. Something that one of the adoption language things that I feel more strongly about is when people say, is he adopted or is she adopted? And while yes, they were adopted, it was an experience. It was a thing that happened in their life. Doesn't necessarily define everything about them. And so using the past tense, so was adopted is preferred to is adopted something that

26:46continually labels them or defines them. I have talked to some adoptees who use the terminology I am adopted. Really, ultimately, we want to be empowering adoptees to use the language that feels right to them. But at the same time, when we hear language like, why didn't their parents keep them in front of our kids? That's not empowering our kids. And that's why we are strong advocates of using good and thoughtful language, especially

27:16around adoptees. Yeah, a few others for me. When people would make comments like, oh, I don't know if I could love a child that wasn't my own. That one drives me nuts too. They are our own. They are our children. Yes, biologically, they're not ours, but there's nothing about biology that means love. I'm not related biologically to Lynette at all, but I love her so much. And to assume that you're automatically going to love a child because they're biologically yours, I think it's a good thing.

27:46At the same time, I would say some people do love differently. And if someone feels like they can't love a child that's not biologically theirs, I think that's a fair thing to recognize. But for us, that's absolutely not our situation. And it's not something we can really relate to. We love our kids a hundred, a million, a gazillion percent. As one of our children would say. Yes, we love them with our entire hearts. They're the best. They are absolutely our children. They're the best. They are absolutely our own.

28:17Even though we don't share DNA, they're ours. Our own. Yeah. And then there's one more that I often hear because our children look similar. People say, wow, they look like they could be brothers and sisters. And they look like they could be yours. And we're like, well, they are ours and they are brothers and sisters. And so referring to like biology is a good thing. Well, even if they didn't look biologically related to people that are bystanders, you can be brother and sister with someone who doesn't look like you.

28:50Look like you. Yeah. And maybe that's why it kind of gets me too, because if they didn't look like us or they didn't look like one another. That wouldn't make them any less. Brothers and sisters or our children. Well, I'm sure we'll talk more about adoption language in the future as well. And we'll post a link to a few resources about positive adoption language in the show notes. Yeah, I would just say making sure that we're using language that is child-centric, that we're thinking about our kids and their feelings. And if you're going to ask a question and you're wondering if it's appropriate,

29:24maybe it's not appropriate. Maybe use more caution in asking it if you really, really want to ask, but you're not sure if it's appropriate. Definitely don't ask in front of the kid. We've had a lot of awkward questions and I can usually be pretty understanding and answering them unless I have any of my kids around. And then I get a lot more uncomfortable and possibly not polite, although I'm usually too polite still. We are so grateful that you've listened to this episode today.

29:54We hope that us sharing a little bit about the experiences that we've had with each of our children as they've become part of our family and that bonding experience can help you in some way. And also with positive adoption language, we hope that you can wrap your minds around that a little bit and be advocates for our children so that they feel empowered. I love that so much. And I just really want to reiterate, this is the Open Adoption Project, right? Like it's a project, it's ongoing. We chose that name because we are still learning.

30:25We are not the omnipotent source of adoption information, obviously. For sure not. Maybe we say something that you don't agree with and that's okay. If you have questions or if there's things that you want us to discuss more, please feel free to reach out. We hope you'll remember that we are obviously trying to do our best to share good information, but we're also human. We're trying to be real with you too. And yeah, it's an open adoption project because we're still building, we're still learning, we're still trying to be better every day. Ultimately with that same goal that Sean said of trying to help our kids.

30:59Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project. If you could take just a moment to subscribe to our show. Right now we're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Stitcher. The more people that subscribe, the more people we'll be able to reach. If you don't mind jumping onto Apple Podcasts and giving us a five star rating and leaving a comment or two, that will also help us connect with other people who could benefit from this type of media.

31:29Thank you so much.

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