First Impressions and Second Dates

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. We're the Nelsons. I'm Sean. And I'm Lynette. We're the parents of four amazing kids and all four of our kids were adopted at birth. And because of adoption, our family has gotten really ginormous, not just with our kids, but also their birth parents, their grandparents, and more. So we're starting this podcast so that we can share our experiences in hopes of helping adoptees have more positive adoption relationships. In today's episode, we're going to talk about who we are, give a little brief introduction, also talk a little bit about what led us to adoption.

0:35And at the end of the episode today, we'll have a brief interview with our 10-year-old daughter. So to start out today, we're going to give you guys just a little bit of an introduction of who we are. I'm Sean, and I am originally from Colorado. My beautiful wife is Lynette, and she grew up in the green state of Oregon.

1:05And we both kind of met in the middle where we came to school in Utah and have been here for a long time, a lot longer than we originally had planned. But we really love the community that we live in. We love being so close to the mountains. We love the mountains. Yeah, we really, really love the mountains. And this is our home. We love it. We have four kids. They were all adopted at birth, and they are our world. We adore them.

1:35We have a daughter who is about 10 years old. And then we have three sons, ages about seven, five, and almost one. Yep. Those three boys, they keep us busy. They're so cute. We don't plan on using their names in this podcast just to protect their privacy. We decided to create this podcast because we were really hoping to create a dialogue about open adoption. There is so much information on the Internet about adoption and what it looks like and how much it costs and what it will feel like and what the process is.

2:13And most of that information is coming from adoption agencies. And while they do so much good, some of the information is biased from their perspective. And so we wanted to bring together a lot of different voices in the adoption community so that we can kind of give a more well-rounded picture of what adoption looks like today and how individuals may go through this process. And it looks very different than what may be described on the Internet.

2:44And to be clear, we're not anti-adoption agency. Three of our children were adopted from adoption agencies, and we really love and appreciate the people we've worked with. We are really just invested in making adoption as ethical and as positive as possible, especially for adoptees. Yeah, and we really wanted to create a place where we can have really open dialogue about adoption. And our hope is to have members of the adoption triad, so adoptive parents, adoptees, and birth parents, all share some of their perspective

3:21so that those that are interested in learning more about the adoption community can hear and learn about that from the individuals themselves. And we are hoping to share lots of good, positive stories and feedback or experiences. But we also want to share opportunities for learning and growth and maybe some negative or hard experiences that we can learn from. And ultimately, at the end of the day, our hope is that we can improve the situation for adoptees,

3:54that something that you learn or something that somebody shares can help you or that you can help somebody know a little bit more about the experience, the adoption experience and potentially how we can help adoptees have a better experience. Absolutely. Our ultimate goal is really to help adoptees and make their lives better. There's a little bit about why we're getting started with this podcast.

4:25I imagine that we'll share more of that as time goes through different episodes and dive really deep into some specific aspects of that. But now we just wanted to jump in and tell a little bit of our personal story, what led us to adoption and how we got to where we are today. All right. So Sean and I first talked about adoption on our first date. It wasn't our first day for sure. It was our second date then. It was the very beginning of our love story.

5:01We went out to dinner. I think it was Applebee's. Maybe, right Robin? I think it was Applebee's and we haven't been back since. Okay. But I remember I... who asked? You asked me. Sean asked me how many... I asked her how many kids she wanted to have. Not like how many kids do you want to have with me, but... But he asked me on a second date how many kids I wanted to have, which is super weird. But the weirdest thing is I didn't even think it was weird at the time.

5:32We were probably feeling pretty confident about our relationship. Yes. And I said I wanted to have eight kids. So we were feeling pretty confident about our fertility as well. Well, and Sean said he wanted to have eight kids too. Right. So yes, we were feeling very well matched and it was a funny conversation. We talked about how we both wanted to have about eight kids and we both imagined that we would probably have about four biological kids and then adopt about four kids.

6:04Yeah. And it's kind of interesting that that was part of the narrative from the very beginning. We both come from families where really we didn't have any experience with adoption. Like we don't have any siblings or cousins or even extended family that were adopted. So for us to kind of come to that really early in our relationship was kind of profound. Yeah, it was really interesting how we both wanted that and saw that in our futures. It's interesting that we both kind of came to that maybe decision or we talked about that really early in our relationship together.

6:41But there were things in our pasts that kind of made us think that adoption might be part of our futures. Yes, when I was about 16, I remember my high school gym teacher told me that I had fantastic birthing hips. This was totally unsolicited. I was not asking for any advice on how to not have birthing hips or anything like that. Exactly what every teenager wants to hear, right? Yeah, I was not thrilled to hear this either.

7:13But she told me I had great birthing hips and that I was not going to be able to tone those away. And I remember when she told me that I like to write and I can be a little bit... What's the word, honey? Poetic? Poetic. Ironic? Maybe a bit dark sometimes. A lot of irony though. Yes, I love irony and I love finding irony. And so she told me that and I just remember my 16-year-old mind thinking, well, wouldn't it be funny if I had birthing hips and I couldn't give birth?

7:47And so that kind of planted that thought in the back of my mind, but I didn't think much about it. I mean, my mom gave birth to seven children. And her mom gave birth to ten. Yes, lots of fertile women in my family. I honestly assumed I would be one of them. But you also had an experience that kind of made you think that maybe a little bit more serious than the birthing hips. That's true. Yeah, about a year later, I was feeling really strongly like I was going to adopt children.

8:20It was one of those spiritual experiences where I just felt so strongly like this was going to be part of my life. Yeah, and for me, there was this moment, so I served a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Texas. And there was this evening where I was invited to eat dinner at the home of this family. I didn't really know them at all. This was the only time I'd ever been to their home. And during our dinner conversation, they brought up that they had recently adopted their son.

8:53Cute little boy. I can remember what he looks like. He was a really smiley, happy boy. And I had never really thought about adoption in my future. But something about the conversation we had that day or something about the feelings that I was having, I walked away from that thinking, you know what? I think this might be part of my future. And I don't know if that was just my mind or if it was some type of spiritual impression.

9:23Right, premonition. But that stuck with me. Even all these years later, I can still picture what they look like. And, you know, I can remember bits of that conversation. Yeah, so we both felt those seeds being planted earlier. And by the time we started dating, we both knew that we wanted to adopt children. So it wasn't that weird that we talked about it on our second date. It was a little weird still. It was still weird. But I mean, we talked about it and we assumed that we would have biological kids first

9:58because it just seemed to make sense financially. Like we figured we would have biological kids when we were finishing college and paying off debt. And then we would adopt kids when we were more financially secure. So we were married. And like Lynette just mentioned, we kind of had this plan where we would both finish school before we even thought about trying to get pregnant. And Lynette only had like a year left of school when we got married.

10:31I had a few more than that. But after just weeks, maybe months, we both started getting these feelings like it was time to start trying to build our family. Yeah, there was one month where I was on birth control, but I was sure that I was pregnant. And I was actually really excited about it. And so that's when I knew that I should probably get rid of birth control and well, talk to Sean, obviously. And then talk about getting rid of it.

11:02But I bought a baby name book. It was a hilarious baby name book with really over the top honest advice on names. There were some really ridiculous names too. It was lots of fun. We enjoyed that book for many years. And so I bought this book and came home and was going to give it to Sean and tell him I thought I was pregnant. And I wasn't. And it was okay because we weren't really trying yet. But that's about when we decided to start actually trying. Yeah. So we started trying to get pregnant and about six months went by with nothing happening, obviously.

11:38And I think we both kind of felt deep down that there might be fertility issues. And we talked about that kind of all along the way where, you know, a lot of our friends that had gotten pregnant, it was like the first or second month that they were trying to get pregnant and it happened really fast. And so I started doing lots of research online. That's how my brain works. Like if there's a problem, I want to be able to solve it and I'll do whatever I need to, you know, to find a solution.

12:11And I remember reading one article that said, you know, the first time that you go in, they're going to want to make sure that... Go into a doctor. Oh, yeah, to a fertility doctor. They're going to want to make sure that you're ovulating. And so this was kind of before ovulation tests were super popular, at least. What I read said, you know, you'll want to chart your basal body temperature, which basically means you're taking a temperature at the same time every day in the morning.

12:42And, you know, these very small changes in that temperature will indicate whether or not you're ovulating. So we knew that we needed to do that. And so Sean decided to make this crazy Excel chart to start charting that. He bought a thermometer. He did all the work and he started taking my temperature every morning while I was asleep. About 6.02 a.m. every day, he had an alarm go off. He would stick a thermometer in my mouth. He would write the temperature down in the Excel chart in our living room and then come back to bed for a bit.

13:13And I slept through it all. He was amazing at taking care of all of that. So I wasn't stressed. Again, I really just like when there's a problem, I have to solve it. And this is the thing that I could do to, you know, kind of get closer to a solution. So we went to, well, I guess a year had passed since we had started trying to get pregnant. And we now had three months of this basal body temperature data. And we went to our fertility doctor.

13:44And sure enough, the first thing he asked was, well, we need to make sure that you're ovulating. So we want you to do this basal body temperature for the next three months and then you can come back. And so at that point, I handed him, you know, this stack of papers that had graphs and temperatures and said, here you go. And he looked at them really briefly and said, OK, let's move on to the next step. So we got to kind of skip those three months of waiting. Which was great. And so we jumped right in and started doing these procedures called IUIs.

14:18So inner uterine insemination. But they also call it artificial insemination. Artificial insemination, yeah. And we did those for 13 months. We skipped a couple of months. I'm not sure how many we actually did. I think we did 10 or 11. Yeah, that sounds right. But there were a couple of months where either it was just like emotionally, we're like, we're not here right now. And then there was one month where we just couldn't logistically get it done. Yeah, they were traveling or something. Yeah.

14:48And so we went through these IUIs for, you know, over the course of a year. And it was rough. It was emotionally exhausting and draining. I honestly think we've blocked out a lot of that. I can't remember much. Yeah, I mean, we had gotten to the point where, you know, having children was really important to both of us. And we both felt like it was part of our future having children in our family.

15:21And to do everything in our power to make that happen and for it not to happen was really discouraging. Well, and infertility can be really challenging on a relationship. It's really hard to not blame yourself or feel like your partner might be blaming you or just doubting. Like, why is this not working? Is it because I'm a bad person? Is it because I ate too much deli meat when I was in high school?

15:53Like, just crazy thoughts. And really, really well-meaning people have lots of theories about. I have so much advice standing on my head, drinking lots of mucinex. Yeah. Some interesting advice. So if you're listening to this and you don't have any problems with fertility and you know somebody that is, just tell them that you're sorry and that you love them. Yes, and let the doctor tell them what to do.

16:23Yeah, trying to empathize usually ends up not being such a great thing. You can empathize, but maybe not advise. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I feel good about that. So we did IUIs, like we mentioned, for 13 months, but the last time we were convinced that it had worked. Yes, so our 13th IUI, I remember that one really well because the office we were going to had a new machine

16:55and we were really excited about it. It was supposedly going to make all of our issues go away. We would be positive that we had the timing right for the procedure and we were feeling super confident. And it's kind of funny that you say like they had this new machine, really it was an ultrasound machine, and they were just like verifying that ovulation had taken place. But for us at that point, that wasn't part of our process or procedures up until that point.

17:26It felt like a big deal. It seemed revolutionary. Yes. But looking back, it probably wasn't very much. Probably not, but we had great doctors helping us. That's true. And so we went in for that 13th IUI and we were feeling confident. After a couple of weeks, I didn't get my period. And so I was like, this worked, this is amazing. And I took a pregnancy test and it was negative. And so I bought a few more pregnancy tests and I took a bunch. And they were all negative.

17:57And I remember just thinking, what on earth? How did I get all of these malfunctioning pregnancy tests? All of them were wrong. All of these pregnancy tests are broken because I am absolutely pregnant. But she wasn't. No. Yeah. So I felt like it was really different that 13th month of trying because we just got our hopes up every month. And then it was like this crash and burn, devastating, heartbreaking,

18:30eating tons of ice cream kind of cycle every time it wasn't working. But that 13th month, when I did get my period and we were sure that I was not pregnant, that all of the tests were correct, I don't remember really being sad. I remember feeling just really resolved and saying, Shawn, I know there's a baby girl. She's supposed to join our family. She's coming and we need to find her and she's not coming through my body.

19:01And so we need to take the next step and go find our baby. Yeah. And we, I mean, all along our infertility journey had been talking about adoption. And like we mentioned in the beginning of this episode, that it was part of our plan, not in that order, but we were comfortable with the idea. And so, you know, Lynette had felt really strongly that we were having a baby girl, that she was on her way. And so it was just logical that adoption would be our next step in this journey.

19:37And it wasn't like adoption was a backup plan. We could have, we actually probably could have done a lot more with fertility at that point, but it didn't feel right. Adoption really wasn't our plan B. It was more of an adjustment of our overall master plan, which of course master plans often don't work out in life anyway. But it really didn't feel like this earth shattering change. And I know when we've talked to friends who are trying to decide if adoption is right for them,

20:09it can be really hard because we don't always know immediately when something is right. But for us, we were really fortunate to both know that it was right, that it was the right time. And the timing worked out really well. So we found out that she wasn't pregnant on a Tuesday. The next day, our adoption agency did their monthly intake on that Wednesday evening. So we went and they said, you know, think about it when you feel like you know if this is the right path for you.

20:42There's this certain amount of money down payment. It was like, I think it was $1,000 or $1,500 or something like that. It wasn't much. It felt like a lot to us, but we were committed. We were poor college students. And so, yeah, but we were totally committed. So I think we thought about it on Friday or Thursday and had some really good conversations. And Friday, we went to the agency and handed them our check and we jumped in. And we started to become a little bit more educated about adoption and started to get or go through all of the approval process.

21:18One great thing that this agency did was they had this support group of adoptive parents that would educate the hopeful adoptive parents and help us understand different nuances of adoption. And so I remember we had no idea what open adoption was. Like we both felt good about adoption, but we really didn't know much about adoption in any way. And we had never heard of open adoption until we went to this intake meeting. Yeah, and they described having relationships with birth parents or biological parents and having visits or spending time together.

22:01And I think we as really young and perhaps naive and insecure, very insecure, wanting to be parents, struggled with that at first because, you know, we wanted to adopt a baby that would be, you know, our child. And at first, hearing the language of open adoption made it sound like it might be like co-parenting or...

22:33Like, yeah, like maybe open adoption would make our child less ours. And this is something I'm sure we're going to talk about a lot. For sure. But we feel really strongly now, like our kids are ours. They are absolutely completely ours, but they also are part of their birth families. And yeah, so I think our insecurities in the very beginning have been alleviated. Absolutely. They're gone.

23:03But we were just young and we were jumping into this process. Maybe some people that are listening to this right now are feeling the same feelings. And our advice would be learn more, talk with people, listen to future episodes of the podcast, and hopefully we can paint a picture of what open adoption really looks like. Yes, and absolutely. Also, make sure you're talking a lot with your partner and staying on the same page. It's one of the most important things, I think, as well.

23:34Yeah, and I mean, luckily we both felt really good about adoption, but we've had acquaintances or friends where, you know, one member in the relationship feels really good about adoption while the other is a little bit more hesitant. And this is not something that you can really compromise on, right? Yeah, you need to be on the same page. It's important. So our hope, again, is as we talk in future episodes, is that we can help paint that picture of what open adoptions can look like, what they do look like, not just in our family,

24:05but in other families as well. So after that first intake meeting where we learned what open adoption was, it was one of those things. It was an optional thing that we talked about, and so it didn't change our plans to adopt, but we were not sure if we wanted open adoptions. And the process of opening our minds to that took a few months, but we heard from lots of friends who had adopted children, how they had open adoptions in their lives, how these relationships with their children's birth families helped their children.

24:38And seeing that and hearing those experiences from real people who we had relationships with really helped us as we started getting ready to adopt. It helped us understand how open adoption can really be beneficial. And really, I think that's one reason that we want to share our experiences in this podcast. We hope that we can help some people too. Absolutely. So I think that will pretty much wrap us up for today.

25:09We are just huge adoption advocates, and we have learned a lot and we're still learning a lot. And our hope is that we can share and help people feel, you know, just amazing feelings toward adoption and what it could look like and can look like. We would love it if you wanted to follow us on Instagram at Open Adoption Project. We're also on Facebook. And please feel free to reach out and ask any questions.

25:40It could be like pertaining to this episode or any adoption questions that you have. We'd love to help how we can. And also, if you have any ideas for future episodes, we would love to cover content that will help our audience. Thank you so much for listening. Up next, we have an interview with our 10-year-old daughter. And Lynette might ask her several questions. And we wanted to do this just so you can kind of feel what she understands and what she perceives about adoption at her age.

26:25Can you tell us a little bit about your adoption story? Of course. I wrote a story about this a little. So it was one day. My birth mother, her was pregnant. She asked her assistant which people were open for adoption. And her mother's father, her asked the Lord which one they should do.

26:57And they chose my family. And with you guys, I got to know each other. And then she decided it was best for you to give me to you. And so here I am with you guys. You bring so much sunshine to our family. We love you. I love you too, Mom.

27:27What does open adoption mean to you? To me, it means that people get to see each other often, like their birth parents. How do you feel about being adopted? I feel happy, excited, and awed. Why? Because I get to be with you guys. Aw. You're sweet. I love you. Yeah. Are there things that your friends don't understand about adoption?

27:58They don't understand that it's something that's happy, but we don't really talk about it. Next. What do you like least about being adopted? That you don't really get to see my birth mother every day. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. How do you get to talk to her when you don't get to see her in person? Well, we could go on Zoom and or we could, what's that thing called again?

28:32When you send a video to school? Marco Polo? Oh yeah. We can Marco Polo, tell each other what's going on. So do you guys do that? Yeah, we do that. How often do you get to see her? I get to see her at birthday parties and in holidays. What's your favorite thing about your birth mom? She's kind, gentle, and loving. You're a sweet girl. Those are things that you are too, huh? Yeah. You inherited that from her? Yeah, maybe.

29:02I think so. I think so too. Because of adoption, we have a lot of grandparents in our family. How many grandparents do you have? At least 20. I think it's closer to 16, but it's a lot, right? Yeah. And what do you feel about that? I feel like I'm loved and I have a lot of people in my life. What is the worst thing about adoption? The worst thing about adoption is pretty much my brothers.

29:34They drive me crazy. But you love them lots, right? Yes, I do. Even when they drive you crazy, you love them all. Yes, I do. I love them equally. All right, what do you wish people understood about adoption? I wish they understood that it's only the birth parents doing something right for the children for their future. Do your birth parents love you? Yes, they do a lot.

30:05That's why they got you to me. That's true. That's really sweet. Anything else that you would want people to know about adoption that you haven't talked about yet? Well, I would want them to know that it would be fun to have, well, I have three brothers. Crazy, he says they're business here. You're cute. So what does adoption mean to you? The birth parents can meet somebody who wants a baby because the birth parents are not able to raise the child.

30:48And then they talk for a while and all of a sudden, you're a parent. Thank you so much for talking with us today. Yep. See you next time. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project. If you have any questions or any things that you're hoping we will discuss in future episodes, please reach out and let us know. We would love to tailor our content to what will help you.

31:21Also, if you could take just a moment to go to Apple Podcasts or to Spotify and give us a five star rating along with a couple comments, it will help us reach more people. Thank you again so much. We'll see you next time.

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