Cathy | Letting Love Lead

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. I'm Sean Nelson and in today's podcast we'll be sharing an interview with my wife Lynette and Kathy Krosno. Kathy is from Texas in the United States and she is a birth mother. She shares her story of placing her daughter for adoption and how that led to her forming a very open adoption relationship with her oldest daughter and her adoptive parents. Kathy also talks about letting love guide in relationships and how her family has supported her in the ups and downs of her journey. I personally loved listening

0:32to this conversation between Lynette and Kathy and I hope that you really enjoy it as well. She has a great story to tell. Okay so we are on the podcast now with Kathy. Kathy thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah I'm so excited to be here. To start off can you tell us a bit about yourself? Absolutely so my husband and I live in the southeast part

1:02of Texas just right outside of Houston Texas. We have four kiddos who are let's see if I can get this right. Seven no six eight ten and thirteen and right now just eleven you know having a busy full life. So fun. Four kids that's a lot that's exciting. It is it's a lot of fun it's a lot of fun it's you know it's so different than I think I ever envisioned and it's like now I can't imagine it not

1:34that way so I love it. Yeah awesome I love it yeah we have four kids too and keeps us so busy but it's the best. Yes it really is. So fun awesome all right well can you tell us a bit about your adoption story just whatever you feel comfortable sharing? Absolutely absolutely so I am a birth mom and I was actually in college when I found out I was pregnant. Adoption was not anything that I was familiar with. I didn't know anyone who had been adopted

2:09you know 20 years ago it just looked a whole lot different than it looks today and so but however I knew in the place that I was at 22 that God immediately laid adoption on my heart. It wasn't you know a good healthy relationship you know that I had you know that you envision when you envision you know starting a family and that sort of thing and it was so interesting how just immediately I knew I was to choose adoption. Now I had grown up in the

2:39church but I can't say that I ever really had a relationship with God. Now we check the boxes I was at church every Sunday I was at Sunday school all those things but it was obvious to me like I have no doubt but that's what was happening and so after I found out I was pregnant I actually moved home to finish my pregnancy and just have the support of my family and that sort of thing and I started working with Catholic Family Services because I knew I wanted to choose adoption. However I didn't think that was the way I wanted

3:13to go. Adoption had been laid on my heart but I also felt like God was telling me who he wanted to raise this baby. As crazy as that sounds but a few years before that I had been in a wedding and we I was getting my hair done to go to this wedding and the woman that cut my hair that day I absolutely fell in love with and started to go to her after that and so even when I was in college every time I would come home she was who like would cut my hair that sort of thing and I just had this connection with her and she and her husband had been trying to

3:46get pregnant and while I was at school I had heard that they had gotten pregnant but had lost both of their babies and so that was in July of 2000 I found out I was pregnant that fall. So while I was home you know I've come from a very like a big small town as far as I feel like everybody kind of knows everybody even though it's a bigger city but so she had found out and heard of course that I was pregnant and I had gone back to her while I was there and got my hair cut the whole

4:16nine yards and I had just asked her because to be honest I didn't even know if adoption was on their radar and so I just asked her you know would it be okay if you know I met with she and her husband and really didn't mention about you know what it was about but she said to me you know she kind of teared up and she had just said ever since I found out you were pregnant I knew this was our baby and I just it's I was just it was crazy how it worked out and so and that was kind of towards the end of my pregnancy was interesting it was I don't

4:48know if I was in denial or what but that was later on in my pregnancy when I finally was like okay I need to this clock is ticking I need to ask them and but they were so great she you know they were there for me those last couple of months they'd wanted to find out the sex of the baby and so I often say that that's when I really realized in the midst of the sonographer congratulating them and everybody being so excited that's when it really hit me that

5:19somebody else's you know excitement was my grief and so I think that's when it really started to okay this is what's kind of happening and because up until that point I don't know like I said maybe it was just denial but you know not thinking about the end part of it right then it was kind of just getting through you know day by day at that point so when I had Lex I was so fortunate the doctor knew I was choosing adoption and he gave me the full three

5:51days in the hospital which was such a blessing to me and my family we had a ceremony right there in the hospital for Lexi we had her baptized and although my family was very very supportive my mom definitely wanted to make sure that I knew that they would help me raise this baby if that but that was the route I wanted to go however I was so sure of what I was to do that I just didn't waver from that however I you know of course appreciated that and I know how

6:22being a mom myself now you know just the the compassion and you know how hard that must have been for them to walk this walk as well but those three days were amazing in the hospital and I always say that you know up until you know that point they were the best three days of my life it was just this experience that I don't know it was just amazing and my mom was there my dad my brother and you know lots of friends and family came to love on her and love on

6:52me and it was just a really really special time I actually videoed all three days and back then it was like on VHS the camcorder and I still have all of those and I've had them converted to DVD but I have yet to ever watch them it's just been it's really just till too hard as crazy as that is and 20 years later but you know I often say that when I was in the hospital and you know I remember Lex you know being in that bassinet you know next to my next to my bed and just

7:23wondering you know is she ever gonna know how much I love her you know is she ever gonna know that right now I'm truly doing what I feel like is the best for the both of us you know I chose adoption because I wanted her to have a mom and a dad you know I wanted her to have a complete family to love her to you know to raise her and at that point you know I knew that wasn't something that that I could provide and so you know when I left the hospital it was so hard because

7:54you know you're you're leaving a part of you behind you know I rolled out of that hospital with no baby in my arms and so it that was very very difficult Deborah and Steve were at the hospital but I just wasn't really ready to see them with her yet and so I experienced all the things with Lex in my hospital room and then they got to experience like the first bath and all that great stuff down in the nursery and they were so great and had said you know that I was they were comfortable with me being a part of Lexi's life as little or as

8:28much as I wanted to and I really knew that in that in that beginning part that I really needed that time to grieve and they really needed that time to become a family you know outside of me and I didn't know what I was capable of at that point and so I had actually attended some grief share classes at a local church that my mom had found that really helped me kind of know what to expect as far as great what grief looks like now there wasn't anything for

9:01adoption or adoptive parents or anything like that so I was actually attending classes from people that had lost children and so while that was hard on a whole nother level because I was there for a different reason it also gave me the tools to know that okay these are the stages that you're gonna go through and that when you do go through them it's completely normal and so at 22 that was very very helpful so but fast forward so now I had had Lex and I had actually moved back to school shortly after to finish college and

9:35Debra was great about sending letters and photos and I found that checking the mail was literally like my favorite thing to do you know I loved getting to see her in that way I was home the following summer a year a year after she was born right before her first birthday like the day before her first birthday my mom had had surgery and I was there I was actually on my way out of town back to school and I was in a parking lot waiting for like a pack and mail to open and they had a sign on the door that they'd like to be right back and I

10:07happened to look over in the car next to me was Debra and Lexi and just it gets me emotional and you know we just kind of got out of the car and it was just like that was it you know from that point forward we became a family and she you know they are so gracious that they and I'm so thankful for that they allowed me and my family to become a part of theirs and it really was just that it was a very natural transition we every time I was home of course I would

10:43see them but my mom and my some other family still lived there and so very quickly my mom and her husband were Mimi and Papa and my brother was uncle Mike and we started spending holidays together and as Lexi got older you know we were able to and especially when James and I married and you know she was here with us and it was just all natural because she just doesn't know a life without us and so for that I am extremely thankful. That is so beautiful so

11:14can you tell us a bit about what your relationship looks like today with Lex and her family? Yes so like I said we you know have always been a part of her life in fact James and I married when Lexi was only three and so she doesn't know life without James either which I'm super thankful for that and he loves her like his own. It's been such a blessing because we've had these times together as far as like she would come spend Christmas with us or Thanksgiving or

11:45spring break and summer vacations and that sort of thing and like I said that was all a natural thing it was never you know we asked for or asked for time with her it was just we're part of the family she wants to spend time with us you know especially since we have four kids of our own as well and so that's all just kind of been a natural progression but I will tell you that she decided to come to college at Texas A&M which we live right west of Houston so it's only about an hour and 20 minute drive from us which is amazing because

12:16she's so close and so last year when the pandemic hit and there was like the seven weeks of shutdown she actually came and quarantined with us and when she started and I think that's when it all shifted as far as she's always been a part of our family and but she was this out-of-town company that would come stay and visit or she was somebody that we would come and see when she got to be emerged in the everyday for seven weeks it was like now she's part of our family

12:47and so it's just I don't know it's just kind of a little bit of a dynamic shift everybody's relationships deepened I love that she is so close because she can come here so often when she's having a bad day or things at school aren't you know that kind of we're a safe place for her to land James and I have been people you know she kind of laughs now but that we can like tell her the hard truths and loves you know it's like things that we can help coach her through now and so I often say to her you know Lex I don't think that God put

13:21us back in your life you know 20 years ago when you were one I think he put us back in our your life back then so we could have the relationship that we have now because it's just been such a special relationship now that she's here so close I love that what would your advice be for families that are working on navigating these relationships that are maybe less traditional and they're not sure how you do it yeah yeah I totally get that because you know I realize that

13:54ours is definitely super super special I think the one thing that I would say is that I think it's common to perceive the birth family maybe as a threat and I get that I know there are situations where they've changed minds and I know how hurtful you know that can be to someone who is hoping to adopt but at the end of the day I don't believe that they're a threat I believe that they're just an extension of your family you know there is this family that has chosen life for this baby and has chosen a better life for this baby and they've

14:29entrusted this other family with this child and so to me it's just that many more people that now love that child and and so that's what I think my biggest advice would be is to kind of put down the more contractual side of it meaning oh well I have to have this many letters you know or I want you to send me this many pictures no just like embrace each other because you are like one family maybe not in a traditional way but you know you share this this amazing bond of

15:03this child and I think that when you can just love everyone that's a part of that I think that it just really helps strengthen all those relationships and I think it makes it easier for the child in the long run because it's not a you know a forced situation or oh I have to do this you know it's it you want to yeah I love that that is really similar to how we have done our open adoption so far but my oldest is 10 and I love hearing how this is looking down the

15:34road more yeah yeah and I think that the younger they are I think they're okay with easier answers you know let's see always new and my kids always know that you know Lexi was born in in my belly and she was born in Deborah and Steve's heart and you know as the years and as she got older the questions definitely got harder but I love that we have an open relationship where she can ask me the hard questions she is okay with asking you know why not me you know why

16:06why was I not good enough you know those are fair and valid questions you know because she see who it makes me it chokes me up because she sees my life now right she sees me married she sees me with four kids and it was never about not wanting her it was never about not wanting her with me it was about what I wanted for her you know and so I love now that she can be a part of our family and feel included and wanted by us and her own family so cool and I love how

16:40the seven-week quarantine really helped to gel that relationship in a new and better way even yes and it was definitely time that I knew we would never get again and so so so thankful for that time very neat before Lex was born what was your knowledge of her experience with adoption okay yeah I really didn't have any we we didn't have any friends I believe my mom had worked

17:11with somebody who maybe had adopted a child and so maybe I'd heard about it that way but I definitely didn't know anything about adoption I didn't know what open adoption would look like or closed adoption I just not been exposed to it nor had I really done the research yet when it came time for adoption in my own life it was just like I said it was just a way that I knew I was to go and really hadn't asked many questions about it and so it was definitely for and I

17:42love that adoption is being talked about more and more today I love that open adoption is talked about more I love that you know that's an option you know because I do feel like when people are in unplanned pregnancies that you know keeping the child and abortion are probably the top two ways that people go to first I love that adoption is being talked about more so people know that that's an option as well and that it's a loving option you know I think it's a

18:13hard option you know you carry around okay well people are gonna know that you're pregnant right they're gonna know about a mistake that you made or choices that you made that you may not be proud of and so I you know I feel like that there comes a scarlet letter with that as how I felt you know being pregnant and not married and so I think it's a hard walk to walk but I want people I love that people are hearing about it is an option and that it's a it's a brave

18:43and loving option I love that had you ever heard of open adoption before you know I can't say with certainty if I had or not I'm sure I messed up but it was definitely not on my radar know what that would look like or not it was just when I talked with Deborah and Steve you know they immediately were like you can be as involved as little or as much and so I really didn't have any expectations

19:16at that point and even in the last 20 years I have not ever felt like they owed me anything you know I feel blessed and honored that they've allowed me to be such a close and you know role and Lexi's life but I also know that they certainly didn't have to do that and so I didn't have any expectations and I'm really just thankful for just how generous that they've been had you guys seen other open adoptions that you were trying to model your relationship after

19:49or did it really just flow completely naturally from that point no open adoption relationships that we were familiar with and I can't say even since then only since we started sharing Lexi and I took to a Facebook live about three years ago and that's when we really kind of did started sharing and that's when people were like oh my gosh I had no idea or you know they would share with us you know about maybe they were adopted or you know those kind of

20:21puzzle pieces fitting together but no we we don't know of anyone else kind of walking the walk especially in the stage that we're in yeah well very neat for people who are listening who have a family member or a friend who are working with an unplanned pregnancy what advice would you give them it sounds like your parents were super supportive and helpful what would you suggest to other people trying to help a loved one through an unplanned pregnancy yes I was very fortunate that my family was so supportive you know I think honesty is

20:56so important and communication and I think just loving that person along the way you know acknowledging the difficulty of the choice and the journey and then you know like I said just kind of being there kind of every step of the way it was great for me like I said to you know get involved in a grief share group that was super helpful I know that lots of pregnancy centers have great options as far as you know adoption post and pre-care there's lots of adoption

21:30agencies out there that offer that that I of course wasn't aware of then you know we didn't have the internet at our fingers like we do now so I would say you know get involved in those support groups you know because there are other people that are going through what you're going through and that you don't have to walk it alone and you don't have to reinvent the wheel you know you don't have to figure out what steps need to be taken all by yourself and so I think that you know getting the support from other resources is is very very valuable

22:00I love that how do you feel going through that trauma therapy group helped you prepare for the relationship that you have now with Lex and with her other parents yeah you know I think more than anything it just helped me like I had mentioned before just kind of knowing the stages of grief I think it also helped me explain that to her because she has her own grief that she has to go through you know as an adopted child and so I think that that was important for

22:34me to recognize and you know that wasn't until she was much older that we had those conversations but expressing to her that hey listen it's okay if you're mad at me or if these feelings come up because I'm not going anywhere so I'm gonna be here you can ask me the hard questions about you know what this process has looked like for you because this you know that I talk about is my side of the adoption story you know her parents have a different side and she has a different side and so it looks different for all of us and so you know

23:04acknowledging that for her and then you know helping her through that grief I think that the hardest part for me has been I don't grieve it's amazing because grief still sneaks up on me especially around her birthday and it is oh it gets me every single year even when I think like even this past year I remember waking up and it was like oh my gosh this is gonna be a great day you know and then it's like it just boom hits me and then it's like I'm like in tears all

23:35day long but I still grieve the baby that I left behind and so Lexi and I have this close relationship and I love that and so I think sometimes it surprises me that the grief is still so raw so often because we are so close and I do have a relationship with her and so that has been surprising to me it does get better you know every single day you know it gets better I think that'll always be a part of me that I have as far as you know when you look at like

24:07like trauma I think it just gets a little bit easier and so I don't know if that helped that answered that I kind of went all around that was really helpful what are some of your tips for helping people get through that grief that probably will always be something they need to work with yeah I think being honest and and communicating because you know my grief is gonna affect those around me and so you know being open and honest with you know my husband or my

24:39kids but hey tomorrow may be hard or and so that that way you're not you're not going through it alone and that those people kind of know what to expect too because you know they weren't a part of that situation and so I can't expect them to know what's going on with me and so I think you know being open and honest and you know even now and it's probably gotten better the last couple years but you know for the longest part every time I would see a pregnant woman or I would hear a baby crying I mean it would overcome me and it was important

25:12that James knew that I mean he picks up on it you know now you know just so you know I may need your arm around me a little longer today or I may need just a few more minutes by myself today and so I think just being open and honest with those around you is is such a game-changer because then they can like be there and help you walk through that as well I love that and support you and help you yes exactly very cool all right so what have you struggled with since placement and what do you wish the others knew or understood um I can't say

25:47I've never regretted my decision of adoption it so as far as like what I've struggled with I think the hardest part about an open adoption is being able to sit back and watch you know because there are no such thing as perfect parents I'm not a perfect parent my parents were not perfect parents and so but I do think sitting back and watching things unfold when you really can't control or protect has been very very

26:23difficult Lexi's parents ended up divorcing when she was around like in the fourth grade and so although we loved all of them through that you know it was very very hard and to just like I said sit back and watch and so that part is hard however I still would not change who I chose I would not change my decision I am there the human just like I just like I am and so you know I I extended that grace you know immediately that was never anything you know that I

26:57expected them to be you know perfect parents at all but again at the same time just kind of sitting back and watching her go through the hard was very very difficult was very very difficult yeah how has your relationship with your daughter and her adoptive family evolved over time I think it's important you know there was definitely some you know adjustments kind of when they were going through you know their divorce and kind of working on their own stuff in their family but as the years have evolved you know it's interesting

27:28because now we spend a lot more time with just Lexi whereas before a lot of times it was them as a family and so but even now like we were back home in August and we saw Deborah you know we went and saw Deborah where she works and loved on her and we went and had dinner with Steve and you know we make it a point to still see them every time we're in town and you know they come here and visit and so they're still a huge part of our family and I love that I love that and and then of course you know with Lexi our relationship is just

27:58really grown and gotten stronger my kids adore her you know it's funny because you know they're still my younger two are still little enough but it's like you know they understand that she's their half sister but it's almost in a funny way like it's like yeah like when they introduce her you know like well this is my sister but she doesn't really live with us and her parents live somewhere else you know it's like okay okay you know but and so it's kind of cute to watch but they they adore her and I'm so thankful you know with her

28:31being closer you know she came in last week to see my son play one of his football games and you know just the little things that she's able to be involved in as part of their life I love because she was an only child and so I think it fills her cup too that she has these other four you know that she's able to live on and be a part of of their lives too so that's been really really cool just to watch evolve as they've all gotten older I love that what a neat relationship for them yeah yeah well what have you struggled with

29:03regarding adoption and what do you wish that others knew so I can't say that I would say that I've struggled with a whole lot with adoption not saying that it's been easy I've had plenty of hard times it's definitely not all rainbows and butterflies but I think what I would want people to know the most and I kind of mentioned it earlier was to look at adoption not contractually I think so

29:34often that people feel that they're maybe entitled to a certain way I think that while in some areas I know that that's probably necessary and like I said I know that our story looks so different than many others and they all look different I think that when you take the have to's out of it it makes it so much better because there's not the pressure on either end on the adoptive family or on the birth family and when you can just really you know come

30:06together as one family loving on this child rather than what you feel like you're owed or you have to do I just think that it really makes that dynamic so much better I feel like with my first two kids in the very beginning of their adoption stories we probably did look at it more contractually and as and it was a lot of work honestly and so eventually that just dropped out and when that I have to do this kind of thing like oh we need to make sure we do a visit

30:36because it's time right when that dropped and it just became about love and family and having that relationship it's been so much more fulfilling so much more enjoyable love that so beautiful yeah that's awesome I totally agree I totally agree it's like when you take that pressure off of it of the have to's it's like when you just let it kind of happen naturally it's going to you know what it looks different for everybody and probably with every adoption and every child you know it may take longer with some and it may be quicker right out of the gate and I think knowing that just even with your

31:08own children right it's like they're all so different you know each child is so different and so it's like knowing that each adoption is gonna look different and being okay with that and knowing that it's on God's timing and not your timing that that that that will work out I love that absolutely agree how do you think your experience of placing your baby for adoption has shaped your perception to parenthood and your experiences with your younger children okay that's a good question um you know it's funny I don't often put the two

31:40together and so it's hard for me to say if I would know any different because I don't know any different I think now that I have children of my own there is a wow that was a hard choice to make because it's like you know when you see it on this side of motherhood and I get that you know when people haven't walked through that but it's like wow I don't know how you could ever ever choose that of one of your own children but it's just oh I don't know I don't know I just

32:16there's definitely a love for all of my children and I think now that Lexi is such a part of ours I don't know that I look at it any differently I don't know if that makes sense but you know there's definitely that appreciation you know and just that extra deep love but I think I would have had that anyways awesome I love that yeah I don't know if that's helpful or not but I think it's one of

32:48those things where it makes sense when yeah you've experienced something like that and yeah yeah it works it'll work yeah all right so what are some of the biggest challenges you feel like the adoption community faces you know I'm still kind of new to the adoption community only within the last like three years or so and so I think the biggest thing is again and I think this is a lot

33:18of the culture is just maybe not being so offended by everything you know I think that people are trying the best they can to navigate adoption and so you know I know people ask me you know oh I'm so sorry that I said you know gave up or you know and not place and I'm like it's okay we're all I prefer place if you use give up that's not gonna hurt my feelings I totally get it and so I think navigating out of love and and and rather being you know upset by you know

33:51a way that somebody's talking about something or a way that somebody's going about something you know especially on social media you know people are really quick to criticize you know and so I think that is hard in the adoption community but it also can be so helpful because I think you reach more and you're gonna touch more then you will receive the negative and so I think just encouraging people to keep going regardless of the negative feedback that they're gonna get because that's just kind of part of it but know that that

34:22that's just that that part just kind of turned an ear to that but and just give everybody grace that it's like we're all trying to navigate through this there is no adoption handbook you know there's not a this is how you're supposed to do it and this is the way it's supposed to look and so I think just giving everyone involved just more grace it would be amazing I love that I think that's great advice for all of life in general too wonderful all right so on Instagram I've seen sometimes you'll post some videos

34:56or different informative things about adoption so are you working to educate people or is that just more like a fun thing to connect like yeah what's your purpose with that yeah both so I think when Lexi and I very first started sharing like I said three years ago we got so much love and support that I knew we needed to keep doing it and so I do it more for anybody that it may touch

35:27that day because I want people to see that my life is not perfect our relationship is not perfect adoption can be super super messy but it can also be so beautiful and so if sharing that with other people like gives them hope or you know encouragement that's why I continue to share about it I love that all right is there anything else that you want to talk about today anything in your heart

35:57that I'm not that I can think of just that you know I'm so honored to be on here and share and just glorify the faithfulness of God in our story and again just hopefully you know inspire someone or encourage someone that is you know navigating their own adoption story or you know thinking about adoption or thinking of placing for adoption or adopting just that I hope that this

36:27gives them you know encouragement and faith in that I love that so beautiful so where can our listeners find you on Instagram okay so my Instagram handle is chasing cross nose I've got four kiddos and I feel like that's a lot of times what I'm doing so I'm chasing cross nose over on Instagram I love that and I guess I should ask are you on other things too that yeah I'm on Facebook you can find me on Facebook Kathy cross snow and but I think that's it cool that's

37:00plenty for me yeah I also want to share as far as like birth moms one of the organizations that I found super helpful is called brave love and they're at brave love org and they're on my Instagram as well but they are a great nonprofit that really loves on birth moms and I think that that is such a really really cool platform that they've done I love them too thank you yeah

37:31that's a good yeah yeah cool all right anything else thank you so much for being here really appreciate it I love talking to you it was an honor thank you for asking thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the open adoption project we just want to give a huge thanks to Kathy for sharing her story with us and just

38:06helping us understand even more if you're interested in following Kathy you can find her on Instagram at chasing cross nose and we'll make sure that we put a link to that in the show notes also check out open adoption project org for more information about the podcast we'll be back next week with a new episode where we'll hear from Katie both an adoptee and birth mother who has a great story thanks so much for listening

38:59you

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