Tamra | “Peace and Confidence in My Choice”

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. We're the Nelsons. I'm Sean and in today's episode my wife Lynette will interview Tamra who is a birth mother. I think that you're really going to enjoy this episode. Tamra is such a unique and just awesome individual. Tamra placed her son Justin for adoption about 20 years ago in the era when closed adoptions were coming to an end and open adoptions were starting to become a thing. In today's episode she'll share her story

0:32along with some advice for expected parents and others involved in the adoption triad. Tamra is a minimalist and she is nomadic. She lives in a converted short bus and has really been nomadic for about the last six years. She has worked extensively in wilderness therapy helping young adults and adolescents that are in crisis and she has been on four survival type TV shows. So awesome,

1:05really unique, really just genuine person who opens up and shares so much from her heart and I think that all members of the adoption triad will really benefit from what she has to share with us in this episode. In the beginning of the episode the audio is just a little rough. There was a poor connection but it does get a lot better just a few minutes in. So we hope you enjoy this episode with Tamra.

1:37Okay we are now on with Tamra. Welcome to the podcast and thank you so much for being here with us. To start off we're hoping that you can share your adoption story. So for me telling my adoption story is like a four-hour affair but I'll try to make it a little bit more concise. So the basic timeline, I was 17 years old when I got pregnant and I was 18 when I placed my

2:09son for adoption. Through most of my pregnancy I was not on board with the option of adoption. I got engaged initially and then kind of was trying to figure out that a single parent and through some pretty dramatic divine intervention came to the answer that I had to place my child for adoption and then through more miraculous divine intervention was led to a particular family and so I placed him for adoption in May of 1996 and at the time

2:44most adoptions were closed we were just starting to evolve. We were just like it was right around the corner and there were certain things about our arrangement that felt really progressive at the time. It felt really liberal at the time but in hindsight from the perspective I have now it looks out like it looks barbaric to me you know but at the time I was like wow I get to meet them one time you know like I get to send a letter every year so I was

3:16you know obviously able to select the family and I was able to meet them once before I gave birth and then we had limited correspondence that kind of weaned off throughout the first year and then like once a year through age five and then total drop-off of correspondence which is awful and but then within a week of his 17th birthday through a series of miracles we came in contact with each other again and so we've been in reunion for eight years.

3:49What were your initial thoughts and feelings as you were considering adoption for your son? You said that you weren't really on board at first so can you just share how that kind of happened? My initial thoughts about adoption were absolute terror and anguish and that's appropriate. I just thought well first of all just logically I thought well no that's an option for people who would make bad parents and who are bad people that's I thought but that's not me and

4:21but also then emotionally I'm like but that would kill me also so who wants to do that you know who wants to be separated from the flesh of their flesh and the bone of their bone not me and so I really was just doing this like this hustle to try and make it not the right answer you know and to make any other answer the right answer and and that was not wasted energy that was not wasted effort like once I discovered I was pregnant I was determined to get myself right unfortunately up until that time it didn't really matter if I was if I was

4:55okay or not I did I just didn't have I just didn't hold much value for myself and so my choices didn't matter because they really just affected me but once I was pregnant it mattered like it mattered more than anything ever had and it was the drive and the motivation that I had lacked to make changes or to make better choices or to you know to live more congruent with with what I felt was right and so the effort started immediately you know of kind of this

5:26transformation and growth and and it it only got so far it was a spiritual journey for sure I knew that I was in over my head I knew that I was good at making poor choices and that was no longer acceptable that was you know when it was only me who would be affected that was one thing but now it wasn't okay to mess this up I had to get an answer and I knew that I had limited experience limited wisdom limited perspective I don't know the future I don't know

6:01what's behind door number one door number two door number three if I choose adoption like you know will the family be perfect or will they be will they misrepresent be horrible or will something tragic happen or if I you know if I place for adoption you know like what if I meet the man of my dream six months later you know all these all these factors all these unknowns so I knew I needed to petition to a source of more information and wisdom than I had access to and so I went to the foundation of faith that I'd always had

6:33though it had been neglected for a long time and in this process I was definitely asking for quote and answer I was asking God for direction but in this process it was a lot of begging begging and bargaining it was a lot of like I'll do like tell me what to do but here's what it should be and let me tell you why and so like I'm explaining to God like did you consider this though you know and like really just pleading my case which you don't like what I discovered is answers don't really come that way when I'm like trying to give the answer to

7:03God and so God's like okay well it looks like you got it figured out you know and one day kind of just in frustration having not received the quote answer I was just talking to God and I got I threw a little bit of a temper tantrum I was like yo I'm on a timeline here like I needed I need and I knew I needed that peace of mind you know that I couldn't produce within myself and and it wasn't coming and I was frustrated and I'm like I'm doing everything like I'm

7:33doing all the right things like what more you know what more is it gonna take and probably the clearest spiritual communication I've ever received in my life came to me while I'm in that conversation of God and it said Tamra surrender your will like and I could see at that moment that I hadn't and I thought I was being really flexible and open-minded because I was willing to do any of the things besides placing for adoption you know to get married or to

8:04be a single parent but I realized that to say you know I'll do whatever you tell me to do as long as it's not that that's not the system like it doesn't work that way and I so when the equation became nothing but what is best for my son the answer was immediately clear to me when I eliminated myself from the equation which is extremely difficult to do particularly in the adolescent brain but when I subtracted Tamra you know the math was easy the math was clear and so

8:40you know at that point I surrendered what happens to me and my belief at the time was well you know he'll have a family they'll have the child they've prayed for and I'll be left by the wayside and I'll never be okay I'll never be okay again that's what I thought that answer meant but there was peace in it somehow because it meant he would have what I couldn't provide which people get really confused about what that means for me that was not money or

9:11material resources though yes that as well but it was maturity experience stability that I lacked I was coming from a whole lot of stuff that it's taken a whole lot of years you know to get ahead of and I could have done it that's a that's another misconception and people be like you just knew you couldn't do it and that rubbed me so wrong because I could have and I could have done it better than a lot of people do frankly um but it wasn't my thinking and that

9:42strong impression that I had was that good enough wasn't good enough you know I didn't want it to just be okay and like just getting by if there was like if there was that available to him how could I not how could I not make that available to him and so the answer was it came with such peace and clarity that feeling of fear and anxiety and anguish that I had every time I thought about adoption really lifted and I felt just complete confidence for the first time

10:15through this whole experience I felt that reassurance and that confidence like I didn't know what would happen I didn't know how it would be but I knew that God had us and that felt good enough that felt like enough and I rested on that and rested in that and so um yeah so that kind of answers that question so what were the reactions of your friends and family when you told them that you were thinking about adoption well when you're 17 and pregnant everybody's got the answer everybody knows what you should do

10:47everybody's got advice and there were definitely people in my world who were like you're not actually thinking of having this baby there were definitely people in my life who were like you're not actually thinking of parenting like you you know like you have to place this child for adoption and there were definitely people in my life that were like don't you dare place this baby for adoption you know so there was you know people talk a lot about coercion and adoption and it happens from every angle honestly and I take 100% ownership of the choice that I made but it does not mean that there was that I did not

11:17experience coercion at 100% dead even in the direction that I ended up going but my decision was not a result of that coercion so you know my my mom was definitely pushing me towards adoption and which the thing is I don't know how she hadn't figured out by then that I could not even look at what she was pushing me towards so I actually relocated I went and lived with and I it was the very end of the era of going away and I wasn't going away to keep the

11:48secret because I've always been a full disclosure transparent kind of person I mean I know it's that in Sunday school for crying out loud but but there was a host family in Atlanta that my caseworker let me give a little bit of backstory there so my mom immediately had me in touch with with an agency affiliated with our church and they were nine hours away in Atlanta and I was in Memphis so when so my mom was in touch with these people I had talked to this

12:18caseworker you know but like they came to town and met me at the church and they showed me this video and there was this horrific image in this promotion video promoting the option of adoption this image that haunts me to this day of this girl being wheeled down the hospital portal corridor with her arms empty and looking back and I looked for hours after I watched that I wept for hours and I was like no never like never and anyways so then I got engaged which was really a way to just defer consequences which is what the

12:50adolescent brain really likes to do like I'm you know answering the question of my child needs a father I'll just get married to this dude and so my mom said okay well you need to let that caseworker know and so I'm like fine so I called the caseworker and I said hey just so you know like I like I've made my decision I won't be replying your services thanks but no thanks and she said okay well Tamra I have a challenge for you she said I have an opportunity for you and a challenge for you she said there's a host family in Atlanta that will take you into your home if you can get away from your boyfriend's and from

13:24your parents and your family and all the pressures of people who have a stake in it and get some distance things might look differently and you might have a little bit of clarity in that place away from all the tension and the stress of these relationships and I was like no you know in my mind I'm like I like I already know the path I'm on I know what you want me to do I'm not going to do it you know but she said but don't answer me right now these are the thoughts I'm thinking you know she's don't answer me right now she said hang up the phone go

13:54talk to God and ask if you should come to Atlanta and then call me back will you do that she says so and and I I couldn't come up with good reason not to so I said yes and I'm a person of my word so I hung up the phone and I said the cheesiest little prayer of my life like dear God like you want to go to Atlanta or what you know and this answer was not like I don't even know what it wasn't anything it wasn't anything but for whatever reason I called her up and I said okay which I still can't explain to this day like there was no impression

14:28there was no like I just said okay and that was really defining that made all the difference was exactly what she said getting the distance from my situation and from all these people who had such high stakes and in my in such investment in my decision and who with the best intentions perhaps were going about things in a wrong way and just the coercion was really a hindrance to me coming to my conclusion coming to my answer and then especially getting the distance from my boyfriend we were in a desperately codependent relationship I

15:00mean my issues come from you know all the issues the main issues from my childhood come from my relationship with my father and you know here was a male who wanted me around and you know that was too much to say no to even though I knew the relationship wasn't good but so when I was in Atlanta the work that I'd been doing on myself started to really take hold and started to kind of exponentially accelerate but I in this at the time we didn't have

15:31cell phones it was like 95 96 and long distance costed money and I was a high school dropout at this point and he was an art school and we didn't have the money to talk to each other very often so our conversations were few and far between and I absolutely like had withdrawals for his attention and for those conversations but I noticed that and there was so much space between though that I noticed that on the days that we would talk that I would regress significantly in all the ground I gained you know I would be weak I would be

16:01confused I'd be I would just I would lose my footing I would lose ground and so it didn't take that long for me to recognize like oh I've told myself a lie I've said that this is giving my son the best you know that the best thing I can do for my son is to give him this father and to give him this mother that I was would have been you know with this guy it's not saying a terrible person at all but it was a terrible relationship so I broke that off but still was not

16:31prepared to really look at the idea of adoption even though I was giving lip service to it because I knew I was supposed to you know to look at all my options and to really be open-minded and evaluate everything so my boyfriend wanted to get married my mom wanted me to place for adoption my father wasn't speaking to me friends wanted me some friends wanted me to abort some friends were like oh it's gonna be so fun to be a mom you know so everything but when I chose adoption people didn't give a lot of reactions then the host family I

17:02lived with also really wanted me to choose adoption but it wasn't that same kind of invested pressure that I was getting at home but the experiences that most of the opinions that have come my way about my choice have come to me since then over the many years of being a birth mom and and I was quiet about it for the first like couple or three years and I just kind of gradually came all the way out of the adoption closet and now it's something absolutely where on my sleeve and it comes up organically I don't skirt it whatsoever and so I have gotten a lot of different reactions friends and family have been totally

17:34supportive even if initially not really knowing what to do with my grief but have been supportive of the choice at least like feel like I did the right thing and made the right choice which is great again it's not why I did it but it helps but strangers on the other hand you know have the whole gamut you know what I mean like people who I've encountered have said all of the things but usually beautiful and supportive things even if unenlightened so what was placement like for you you said it was not very traditional or not what we

18:04think of it as now where you place baby and adoptive mom's arms yeah placement is the hardest part of the story right like for every birth mom and the whole story is hard but going back to that place for a birth mom to go back to that place in her mind is really like I mean the thing is it's heaven to me like the time we spent together before placement was like the most divine experience of my life and like the holiest experience of my life and I was sustained with this

18:36piece from from outside of myself to sign those papers the wording of which is so final and so harsh and then somehow was able to dress that baby and kiss him goodbye and unfortunately at the time we had not evolved to the point of enlightenment where I was able to put him in his mother's arms which now I know I should have just insisted that and then and just like held that signature hostage you know I really wish I would have but so we spent two holy

19:07days in that hospital room and it was absolute hallowed ground it was a temple and I was more myself than I've ever been like just more fulfilled than I've ever been and just more joy and peace and love than I'd ever experienced like I never knew love until I met him I was completely like completely like juvenile and what I thought love was until I saw his face and so there was this power that sustained me to sign those papers and then to dress him and

19:42kiss him goodbye and hand him to a couple of strangers and that's not right I wish in hindsight I would have insisted on putting him in his mother's arms I think it would have been to their benefit as well as to his benefit to really just see and feel and experience the sacredness of that transaction but instead yeah a couple of dudes I didn't even know and then just hoping they know how to work the car seat right and then he's gone and I think I envisioned in my mind you know wondering how this would go initially I kind of thought like when

20:16I would envision the scene I thought it was gonna be like this weeping and wailing situation you know because I was a very theatrical teen and I think I put that on for a second like I kind of tried to like emote really dramatically for a second and it just didn't fit the actual energy in the room or the feeling and I just kind of like relaxed into like this piece however when I left the hospital and went home when I left the hospital and went home that piece gave way

20:49to the natural circumstances which was I had just lost a child and for a very long time I felt like I couldn't breathe there was at least one time I couldn't walk my sister had to like carry me down the hallway because the grief was so intense and and that's not something that ever goes away that's not something that I mean you don't ever really you know people talk about moving on getting

21:20over it that's not a thing it's like that's not a thing have I experienced healing 100% but the loss will never cease to be a loss but like any loss our life starts to fill back with other things it finds its place in proportion perspective in our heart but it but it has never stopped it's never stopped hurting and it's never stopped being lost and it's really interesting like the things that will trigger that grief again and there have been a few experiences that have brought me back to day one you know where I didn't think I

21:51could feel it that intensely anymore but to where I could actually feel the hollow so I can actually feel the hollow in my womb and I can actually feel the aching in my arms and I could you know remember like viscerally and physically the longing not often but but I think that's gonna continue to come back like randomly to get triggered throughout my life and I don't mind it it has a purpose it plays it plays a role and it means it means my heart is still on so

22:23so my expectations have shifted I no longer think I no longer have a timeline or feel frustrated or disappointed or judgment you know about the process I see a lot of wisdom in what my body and my psyche and my heart and my spirit and my mind present me with and invite me to experience what advice would you give to expectant parents as they make plans for relinquishment so many things well I can

22:53talk about my own regrets but not everybody feels the same way I do but I wish that I would have taken the opportunity to nurse him I wish I would have taken the opportunity to bring him home to meet my family I wish I would have had the confidence and like presence of mind and trust in my own judgment to demand place to face-to-face placement and and I wish that I would have demanded my information be given to them it's rather than having this third

23:28party kind of arbitrarily one-size-fits-all play God essentially you know and decide for everyone I wish I would have stood up against that but I just I didn't have the perspective anyway um but that's not relevant to what people are experiencing these days so I would say just make sure that the decisions that you're making about to place or not and about how to go about it are just our decisions that you feel personally convicted of and that you're

24:03not handing over any of that autonomy or any of that decision-making to anyone else and trust your intuition that is your stewardship in your assignment and you are qualified for it trust your own knowing and have the confidence to stand your ground in your own knowing I would say know that know that you have no frame of reference for the loss that you're about to experience you think

24:37you like I was like okay it's gonna be painful I understand pain but this was just a whole different realm of pain that I expanded into and likewise there's nothing that can prepare you for the amount of just love you're going to experience as well and the bonding connection at least from my experience and so just be prepared to not be prepared emotionally but also I would

25:13say know that you can no one should ever make their decision based on fear or a feeling of inadequacy whatever decision it is I didn't place for adoption because I felt I couldn't parent I could no one should not place for adoption because they think they're not strong enough or out of fear and really identify where the fears are and challenge them and confront them and and then and put them in their proper place and move forward in courage and faith

25:45and incompetence and your own ability because the love of a mother is an incredibly empowering factor and there was the doctor who delivered him came and stood in the doorway and observed me holding him and singing to him and just smiling at him and he I didn't notice him at first and then he spoke and he said you're not gonna go through with it he saw how much I loved this baby and he thought that that would prohibit me from being able to place him but I knew even

26:16in that moment that what he didn't understand was that it was because I loved Justin so much that empowered me to do the impossible to define my own instinct to break my own heart I mean mothers can lift cars off you know like lift cars they have their kids and so just have confidence in your own capacity and ability to do whatever your intuition leads you to other advice approaching oh if you can just have a support system and particularly I would

26:49say reach out to the to an adoption community or create one if it doesn't exist find one online preferably in person and particularly to connect with other birth parents though be selective because there's all kinds of different viewpoints and you know specific like social media groups all seem to kind of become one or the other kind of echo chamber and so just be mindful that we can hear one brand of experience and think that's everything and or another

27:20one and think that's everybody's experience and that's the expectation but really it's incredibly diverse and leave space for you to have your own story and your own experience rather than kind of you know a lead-to-witness kind of a thing where you're you're living out your expectations I would say also don't think that you can't survive and thrive it will always hurt and it will always be a loss but as well as breaking you it can also make you and yeah I didn't have

27:57contact with other birth moms for like three years after I placed and when I first first went to my first support group it was just it was like an option I didn't know I had I saw it modeled and other people post placement that they were happy I saw it modeled that they that they had full lives and it was like I didn't even know that was an option until I saw other birth moms doing it yeah birth mom community find other birth moms that's huge I would say talk about it you know this is getting more into post placement advice but I would

28:29say talk about it write about it don't put it away the only way out is through you have to feel it to heal it it's not gonna go anywhere if you don't address it and if you don't allow it trust that process and surrender to it and again like through sharing it and writing it and inviting people into it that is really processing as well so I could go on and on probably to answer that question that's really amazing advice I loved all of that so we had a listener

29:02ask us this question and I feel like you talked about it a little bit earlier but if you have more thoughts I know I should probably love to hear more so she asked does the pain ever go away from placing no no no but that's okay that's okay I don't want to move on because where there's tremendous pain there's tremendous love and for me it's a good trade I accept and like I said it has

29:37its own wisdom and it knows what it's doing and I need to not try to boss my to boss my psyche around or to boss my heart around but to surrender to to the wisdom that you know that my emotions have see the purpose in it but know that it won't kill you it feels like right after placements and for some time after placement it feels like you won't survive it it feels like it's gonna kill you and it feels like it's always going

30:07to feel this way that's that is the moment that is the snapshot that is not forever you will survive it you will grow from that moment what have you struggled with since placement and what do you wish the others knew or understood about those struggles if I struggled with post placement geez man closed adoption yeah like yeah no that I mean like I said I think I really think

30:38it's barbaric I think closed adoption is barbaric and not just from the perspective of a birth mom but like just imagine the abrupt separation for a brand-new human when their familiarity is to this energy and this voice and then it's completely gone imagine how disruptive that is there is something unnatural about adoption I 100% still choose my choice and I advocate you know people consider it as one of their many options just have an awareness and a

31:10full education but it's not natural and and I think it is traumatic and I don't fully buy into the idea of the quote primal wound which I know a lot of people have a problem with daring to say something like that because I've just seen so many people have different experiences I think for some people it is exactly that classic primal wound scenario but for so many other people they really don't identify with that and we are just so individual even I guess as infants we process differently and experience differently so I don't think putting that on everyone is necessarily fair however I do think it is very likely

31:43there is some degree of trauma in that separation and I think it's significantly lessened when there is a gradual transference and then a continual presence of that first you know of that first mother and I also think you know birth is trauma as well you know life on the planet is trauma so I don't think that because it's traumatic that means it's wrong but I think it means be careful how you do it be wise how you do

32:13it be prudent how you do it what have I struggled with post placement I mean just it's hard just everything about being a birth mom is really hard you know certainly more so in the beginning I struggled with other people not understanding it because that certainly happens like I said more often than not people are kind even if they don't understand and they want to understand but there have obviously been you know experiences where people have said hurtful unenlightened things and and that was really hard to take initially my

32:48skin has gotten a lot thicker but having something so personal and so sacred to me be misunderstood in the beginning was just like unbearable reunion has been the hardest thing I've done since placement and that's kind of a whole other story and just because placement is hard doesn't mean it wasn't right and just because reunion is hard doesn't mean it isn't right I've grown exponentially from both I mean they've been the two experiences that have you know had the most pain and the most growth you know there's gifts in both

33:20of those struggles but the reason that reunion has been so gosh challenging and painful is that well the so I'll try to briefly give the backstory here so his when he was five years old his mom had a stroke and she's been cognitively impaired ever since and also had a lot of physical and medical issues and so he essentially lost his mother she's she's cognitively like a child and I think you

33:51know in his father's process bless his heart you know for going through that and it really just wasn't what he signed up for having not been there the best I can put it together is that he kind of checked out and so it seems like my birth son was kind of left to his own resources and the internet like and and missed out on a lot of parenting and modeling and training that would have come if his mom had still been there and and I say that without judgment and with

34:25compassion but with a little bit of frustration but it is what it is and the and the results of that are an adult who has a lot of unprocessed trauma and who doesn't necessarily really know how to be an adult he's incredibly intelligent golden-hearted person and just really struggles in the world and so a lot of depression and tech addiction and some isolation etc a lot of loneliness things

34:59like that and so for those reasons just to discover how very different his story was then the story I thought I was giving him that has just been a heck of a thing to wrap my head around not only just because I love this person more than my own life more than any other person and he is struggling and that's just been and then being his closest confidant through those struggles so that's it's a lot of a lot of burden a lot of emotions to process but then also processing like this is the life that I gave him now I've got anger about that

35:35that I've dealt with over the years and and hopefully you know gained some ground on and I've got some frustration and some confusion but I think it amazes people that I still don't doubt my decision even though his story has gone so very differently than what I thought it would be I mean I thought that I would I used to say all the time when I would speak and write for all those years I would say I gave him more I gave him better and I'll never speak those words again because I just can't say that with any confidence but what I do

36:06still know is because of the experiences that I had when I chose adoption and when I met his parents specifically when they met his parents like that was second to meeting Justin second to meeting my son and seeing him for the first time meeting his parents face to face was the most undeniable spiritual experience of my life and so I still believe that my choice was right I still believe I didn't give him necessarily better or more in terms of how we see those things but what I gave him what is what was right for him and I still have

36:38peace and confidence in that choice that God put him there now I've got some beef with God because I don't have access to the blueprints and you know and I don't have access to that wisdom but in my better moments I trust that wisdom and and I trust that God does have the blueprints and you know my formative years were not ideal either and they left a mark and they left me with some handicaps that for my entire time on this planet will be my curriculum you know that will be you know burden and obstacle to me that I work through and

37:12work on and and and gradually you know ascend but in hindsight those are the things that I've built my mission on it has been my curriculum and so in hindsight from the perspective of you know this side of all the work I've done I would not trade in those struggles and I think he has that same opportunity you know he can have those struggles and those injustices transformed and actually be for his benefit and the benefit of others when he is ready that

37:46is an option to him and it will be that redemption and transformation in my experience is so sweet that it compensates for that before for all the bitterness so that is the perspective that I believe in cling to and that that has definitely been the biggest struggle for me post placement is just trying to figure out how to be gosh not even just a birth mom but a mother to this person who has so who has such maternal void you know and has so much space to fill

38:22in a maternal sense and trying to figure out it's just so it's so bizarre and unexpected and so unique and like there's not a manual for it and yeah so just trying to walk that path emotionally and logistically and yeah yeah that's heavy and really beautiful thoughts thank you for being so vulnerable that's really hard yeah yeah I take like when I there would be things

38:56that would be published or recorded I was hesitant about saying that much typically but he never he never listens to her reads any of this stuff so and I feel like I'm not being disrespectful because I'm not disclosing his identity or anything like that so on that note how has your relationship with Justin and his adoptive family evolved over time Wow I mean like I've had to grow and things have had to shift and I and it's just taught me so much and and really

39:28things have shifted so much I'm like I'm still more invested in him than anything he's still the most important thing in my life but that looks differently than it used to because the way that it looked initially was not sustainable and you know if he called me in crisis I would go into crisis and and in that mode I am NOT going to be a good support or I'm not gonna hold space well I'm not going to speak wisdom if I'm in a state of terror but it's some pretty scary

40:01stuff you know and so I totally have grace for myself that that's the was my experience at the time but it just isn't sustainable and I found that I was ineffective in that state and so I have just learned so much more surrender like even gosh even if my worst nightmare is realized like I have walked through that in my mind time and time again when it has been a real prospect and even if the

40:32worst happens I have determined that I will be okay and that I will forgive and that I will be at peace and I have found the presence of mind and the trust and the surrender to walk him through that scenario as well which I think has been really beneficial for him I think initially my calm felt like you know and he would say don't you even care and I think in his growing up he kind of learned to see love as people freaking out people being scared and that's how

41:06he knew that he existed and that he mattered was when people were afraid for him but over time and me being more calm and expressing love in a different way and being more effective in a state of peace I think he has learned to identify and recognize love in different forms so yeah things have shifted and evolved a lot with his dad initially I really just tiptoed around everything and cleared everything with him first and you know of course it's crystal clear to me now

41:39that he just trusted me 100% was just so overjoyed to have someone else in the game you know I mean I've never seen adoptive parents throw the door wide open like that you know and it makes perfect sense to me now that he was just like we're drowning in here like please help and so I kind of that you know got confidence in that like okay I'm kind of running my own show here what you know with Justin and like I kind of can't do wrong and it's all gonna be better it's all gonna be you know improvements all gonna be a benefit and and it's actually

42:12come you know kind of evolved to where I give him I give his dad counsel and advice and like there have been times when he we've really counseled together for Justin's best interest and and kind of leaned on each other's insights and experience and really my experience is so much of my experience is working with adolescents in crisis over the years have prepared me really well before for this relationship with Justin then and even with his dad his mom she just gosh that

42:44woman I just love her I mean she's like I said cognitive she's she's like a little she's like a little kid but she is love and there's been twice when she has spoken to me through her broken brain right from her heart and she she told me thank you for giving him to me and I said Debbie he was yours and she says we'll share him in heaven and it's like she doesn't there's not usually that kind of clarity like I'm telling you like anyway and she's just goodness and

43:17she always was I mean when I met her I just was instantly in love with her and I just instantly with her sister and I just instantly and then all those years of missing Justin like as much as I longed to be with Justin I was like let me just sit with my friend let me just go to lunch with my friend and like be in her life and have her in mine and so that reunion was really sweet and really beautiful and really hard with his mom so and she just loves me she just gets I

43:47mean she loves having me around and she gets so excited and their home is open to me like they've been so gracious like whenever I'm anywhere near where they live you know they always ask me to stay more days and you know so I'm really grateful for just and how vulnerable they've been with me to let me into their world and to not hide you know the dysfunction and the weaknesses like I think so many people would be inclined to do because as burdensome it is as it is as painful it is as it is as disappointing as so many aspects of it

44:20are like I would I would have that any day over going back to not knowing and wondering you know and I have influence and I would take that any day over not knowing each other so is there any advice that you would give to adoptees and birth parents either one who are searching for each other trying to find reunification yeah so I actually worked for a year in adoption reunification doing search doing the search work and kind of helping people navigate you know

44:54the relationship and kind of opening that door and I curated an e-book actually comprised of stories from adoptive parents adoptees and birth parents who had been through adoption reunions and so I actually have a lot to say on that I mean obviously I have a lot to say on everything but advice that I would give I would say okay for me I think I had a premonition for lack of a better word that maybe what I found on the other side of that door might be

45:26hard to take because before I had any before I knew the difficulty that was just around the corner I had a really intentional determination and mantra that no matter what I found I would love no matter what that was my that was my mantra as I approached adoption reunion love no matter what and when I get off track I can recenter myself towards that I can check myself against it and so I

46:00would recommend that be prepared to go in with grace and go in with surrender and go in with acceptance now the majority of people who seek reunion have a positive experience but I know lots of people who have had incredibly heartbreaking experiences but I would say that even those folks most of the time are glad that they tried because now they know rather than wondering yeah I would say be in a place with your own stuff where it's not going to be

46:32burdensome to the other party particularly as a birth mom as I was approaching reunion I really just needed Justin to know from the get-go that he did not need to fix me or heal me or fill my wounds or fill my voids and and I told him in our very first conversation this relationship will be what you need it to be and I didn't want to put anything on him and I've known adoptees who felt put upon or obligated by their birth parents and it makes

47:02sense because particularly people who closed you know even before I did when things were so much darker and like you weren't even allowed to process you know and people were told to keep secrets and hide you know it makes all the sense in the world that people have these gaping wounds and there and then reunion is like the bomb you know the salve but just to be really careful to not transfer that to this other person and to and to make sure I mean we can subtly objectify

47:35people if we're not careful when we're in pain so I would say that one for sure don't expect it to fix anything or to fix everything I would say and when it does just be grateful you know let's see come what may and love it is something that really comes to mind that was another thing that I just determined that I would have gratitude no matter what I found I was determined that I would be grateful before I open that door you know that was the pep talk I'm giving

48:05myself whatever there is you will be grateful for it and I found that we can be grateful like whatever the circumstances let's see I think there's just so much fear on both sides I've seen a lot of standoffs there's been so many times when both parties are just waiting for the other party to open the door and so I would say have the courage to make that move because both parties often feel it's not my place I'll wait for them you know I don't want to put them out I don't want them to feel uncomfortable I like I said I know

48:37people who have experienced rejection and that is so so painful and I would say no that's a possibility on both ends hope for the best and and be prepared for the worst all right well that was great is there anything else that you want to talk about oh a thousand things I'm sure like I have I always have so much to say on this topic I've been really involved in the adoption community for the last 23 years and so I've seen I've watched it grow into being a

49:11community which was something that really wasn't there at first and and a lot of really beautiful things and I've watched things shift and I think we live in a larger culture that is that we really just like to divide and subdivide and subdivide and subdivide and I've seen a lot of division in the adoption community over differences in people's experiences and perspectives and that has been something that's really hurt to watch and part of the reason I think I've withdrawn let me tell you the sweetest associations you know have been

49:46with people who have this this unique and incredibly personal experience in common with me and not just adoptive parents but I'm sorry not just birth parents but also adoptive parents and adoptees there's this knowing and there's this there's this thing that we share and and when I've been united particularly in service with people from the other people from the adoption triad but also just how healing it's been to connect with those people and across I mean in in the beginning we were so much better at connecting with

50:16each other across those lines of differences in our experiences and so I would say listen without judgment listen without thinking that you know and don't think that anyone else's narrative is a commentary on your narrative it isn't and someone else's joy is not your pain someone else's gain is not your loss and someone else's loss doesn't take from your gain someone's pain doesn't take

50:47from your joy I like my dream is like to see again really integrated diverse unified supportive loving adoption community because it was magic it was magic for all of us like just added so much sweetness so so yeah I would say for people who are in the adoption world and also like I said when you're doing your research recognize recognize the echo chambers exist and make sure you check

51:19out all the different echo chambers to get a real perspective rather than just landing on one and going oh that's what adoption is so that's beautiful such great advice I've definitely seen some of that divide as well and that's really well said just trying to be open to listening and hearing all of these different experiences I love that so much but thank you so much Tamara you are so wise and I really loved hearing your story thank you Lynette thanks for the

51:49opportunity I love telling my story and I don't get as many opportunities as I used to so it's good for me so thank you for that it's great to connect with you thank you so much really really appreciated it thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project we want to thank Tamara again for sharing her story with us and for really sharing all of the things that she's learned over most of her life as a birth mom if

52:22you're interested in following Tamara on social media she's on Instagram at ramblin tam and we will put that in the show notes for today's episode again thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time

53:02you

Transcripts are generated automatically and may contain errors.