Communication and Community with Sara Jane Schenk

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project, we're the Nelsons. I am Lanette. And I'm Shaun. In recognition of National Adoption Month, we have decided as a podcast family to create a little more content. Lanette and I and Alisha Gallagher, who is our Director of Communications, are doing some extra interviews and conversations with friends to help us in the adoption community learn more. So during the month of November, you can expect that we'll be in your newsfeed a little bit more. We hope that this is valuable to you and that it enriches your

0:31National Adoption Month. We're here on the podcast with Sara Jane Schenk. Thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you. I really appreciate you having me. I'm excited. We're so excited to have you here. So to start off, can you tell us a bit about you? Yeah, I am married. I have a husband and a little boy that just turned one in June. So, and I work as an early childhood specialist. I

1:07work for a nonprofit agency. And it's really cool because one of the parts of the agency I work for is an adoption agency. I don't work in that part of it, but I get to be around it. So that's really cool and fun and just enjoying my little family. That's awesome. All right. And you are connected to adoption. Do you want to tell us your story and how our community? Yes, I am a birth mom. I have a daughter that I gave birth to. She will be 16 in February. So about 16 years ago, I was

1:42in this situation where I found myself pregnant and didn't know what to do. And I think from the beginning, I knew I couldn't raise her the way that I wanted her to be raised. I kind of knew that from the beginning. I was just coming out of a not so good relationship at the time. I can get to that later, but it actually turned into my family now. And I just knew that

2:20she deserved better. And not that I couldn't give her that. I just knew that she, sorry, I am emotional. So this is always an emotional thing. But I think I just kind of knew that she was meant for someone else. That wasn't my time raiser. And so I was lucky enough that my mom was friends with a social worker at an adoption agency. So we kind of got in contact with her and just kind of started talking to an adoption agency. Sorry, I'm just going to shut up. And this was

3:00back before the internet was big and stuff like that. So I had scrapbook profiles of families. People put together scrapbook pages and stuff. And they gave me a bunch of profiles. And I looked through them. And I knew from the beginning, I wanted it to be open. That was always something I knew. I knew if I was going to do this, I needed to know her and know what her life was like and be a part of it as much as possible. And I also knew that I wanted her to have a similar

3:33upbringing as me. So religion played a big part in that as well. I wanted her to be with a family who had the same beliefs that I had. So those were kind of the two main things I kind of looked for. Another thing that I really wanted was her to have siblings. I didn't necessarily need the family to have kids already, but I wanted a family that wanted more kids. So that wasn't as important as the first two, but that was something that I always wanted as well. It's an interesting story

4:08because I met with one family and it was awkward. And I was with my ex-boyfriend actually came as well. And a bunch of people from the agency were there and it was a dinner and it felt like an interview. It felt transactional. It didn't feel comfortable. It didn't feel like what I had expected this to feel like. And I was scared and I just said, you know what, I need some time to

4:46think if this is really what I want to do. I needed some time. So I had had some times, I'd had a dinner scheduled with another family and I just asked the agency, can we just cancel that? And I just, I need some time to really think about this. And I took a couple of days and the day that I was supposed to be meeting the family, I called the agency and I said, hey, would they be willing to still just meet with me, just me? And they said, absolutely. They 100% wanted me

5:17with you. And I went and met them and immediately I knew that that was her family. I knew it from the second I met them. We had dinner, we talked, it was comfortable. It was just a wonderful, amazing experience. And I was only a few months pregnant at that point. And so I got to develop a really great relationship with her family before I placed her. So it was really nice to have that

5:51relationship with her family. They had a previous daughter, they had a daughter that they had adopted as well. So I got to know her, we did things together. We went to movies, we went to sporting events, we went to dinner, we went and got ice cream, we went and did all the things together. So I really built that strong, deep relationship with them prior to giving birth. So then when I gave birth, it was just, it was just so easy. Not easy that it wasn't easy and

6:23it was hard, but it was, it felt right. It just felt right because I knew them. Wow. So you had multiple months where you were able to build that relationship before your baby was born. Wow. Yep. Yep. And it was amazing. It was such a good time. It's incredible. And then what was placement like at the hospital? Oh man, I tell people this, I had a C-section and those four to five days in the hospital were amazing. I asked them if I could keep her with me in the

6:55hospital and they were so kind and let me do that. And I just, we were just, we were just loved on and lifted up by so many people, my family and my support system and friends and her family and their friends and family. And just, it was just, I kept a list of how many visitors we had those four days in the hospital and it was like 50 plus that we had come and just see us and love us. And it was really, I, people have said, people haven't said to me, but I've heard people say, you know,

7:31I was going to, I was thinking about adoption, but you know, once I saw my baby, I knew I just, I couldn't do it. I just loved him too much. And I felt that way about adoption. I saw her, I loved her so much that I knew that second I saw her, I knew that this was the right thing and that she was going to where she was supposed to be. So I was lucky to have such an amazing support system and people by my side that really carried me through that time and it was beautiful.

8:07And then post placement, I'm guessing things stayed open or yeah. Yeah. They had me over for dinner, I think maybe the next week. And it was just amazing. It was so fun to go and see her and see her with her family. And it was so great. It took, it took some time, I think, for us to figure out what our openness was going to look like. It was definitely kind of a learning curve for us. But it was, it was, we kind of just figured out how we wanted it

8:40to be on our own. And this was kind of back before, like obviously text messaging and cell phones were around, but they weren't as common. And so yeah, they invited me to things and, you know, special events and holidays and stuff like that. They made sure I was a part of and they sent pictures and this was more like email time. I think they sent emails. Her mom would send me emails and just kind of update me on her on how she was doing. And I have stacks and stacks

9:14of pictures of her, because this was kind of before digital pictures were a thing. So I just have boxes and boxes. Her mom was great at just sending me all the pictures. It's amazing. And she's 16 now, that sounds like. She'll be 16 in February. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So it's wild. It's been, it's been amazing. It's been such an amazing experience. It's amazing. So now that she's nearing adulthood,

9:45has your relationship shifted really from being where the adoptive parents are trying to help navigate this relationship to where it's really you and your daughter navigating? Yes. Yeah. I definitely think that that's it's transitioning into that for sure. You know, she has a cell phone now and we can just communicate with each other and she's great. I don't know if you want me to go into the whole other story that is so special about our story, but. I would love for you to, if you were up to it. That kind of ties into that question. So her birth father, a few years, about five or six years ago,

10:21we reconnected and we got back together. And we, when we placed her for adoption, we both knew that we were ready to be parents and we weren't even really ready to be in a relationship. We had been in one, but it was not good. And we were young and I was 21 when I placed her, but it still felt so young. And so when we got back together a few years or so she was about 10 when we got back together.

10:51It just felt right. It just felt like we were meant to be together. So we actually got married in 2020 right in the middle of the pandemic. And he had not been a part of her life at all. He had come up to the hospital when I gave birth and saw her then, but after that he had not seen her. He didn't know her family. He didn't know any of that. So when we got back together, it was. That was probably one of the hardest times of my experience was just like getting him

11:24comfortable with it, getting them comfortable with it. They were amazing and were totally open to him. They're so great. And so we got married in, like I said, 2020. We actually just wanted a little small destination wedding. So we went to Atlanta, got married in my brother's backyard and her dad, our birth daughter's dad actually married us. She was in the wedding. She was one of my bridesmaids and he married us. They came back. It was all just our immediate family and them.

11:59Because they are pretty much part of our family. Her mom always jokes that it's a family orchard. We have a family orchard. We don't just have a family tree. We have a family orchard. I love that. That's beautiful. Yeah. And it was really just such a great experience because my family, like all my family had seen her, but his family really got to like be around her and experience her. And it was such an amazing time. And yeah. And then we had a baby in 2022. So she has a full biological little brother and we call her Sissy and she calls

12:39him her brother. And it's been amazing. It's just been the greatest thing ever. Oh, wow. Beautiful. Yeah. So something I've really loved that you've been talking about is these learning curves and figuring out what this relationship is going to look like when you are having an open adoption, but it's like new, right? When it was new for you and then when it was new for your husband. So do you have any thoughts on how we can help people through this learning curve or advice for people in that phase trying to figure out that learning curve? Because

13:13it can be a hard time. It is a hard time. It's a really hard time. And that was, I think that was one of another one of the hardest things about it. I do have to say that I think it's so individual and I think that it depends on the birth parents and then the adoptive family and what's going to look like. I think that you kind of just have to figure out what works for you and works best for you. I know that we struggled a little bit in the beginning with outside commentary about it,

13:46especially back when I gave birth and placed her openness was so new. It felt like it was brand new. It felt like it was still in its infancy stages. And I know on my side and I know on my birth daughter, her family side, there was some people that weren't super kind about it. They didn't understand it. They didn't think it was a good idea. You kind of always had those people in your ears saying that. And I think we just had to say, you know what? This works for us and this is how

14:19we're going to do it. And the one thing that we've learned is it just, she is such an incredible, secure, just happy girl. And she just has always known me and she's always known that I'm her birth mom. And we've always said, me and her mom have always said, it's just another person that loves her just as much as her parents love her. And how can you ever deny that that's not an amazing thing for a child to experience? And it's been incredible. And

14:55like I said, it took some time, but once we figured out our openness and how it would work, it just, her mom and we consider each other sisters, we really do. But I know that it's going to look different for everyone. And I think that it definitely is something that communication is key. I know that communicating with each other, that's how we kind of felt, how we kind of learned what needed to be done and how we wanted to do this.

15:29I think that's amazing advice. Communication is such a big part of all relationships, really, right? But these relationships have such a big key factor. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So how do you feel like your experiences as a birth mom have shaped your life? Oh, this is one of the questions that I just, I think about it all the time. In fact, lately, I've thought about it a lot. It's hard for me to picture my life before her. Her name starts with

16:00a C, so I always say DC. I can't really picture my life before her. It's really hard. Like I'll see pictures and I'll think of things and I'll think, oh my gosh, that was a really good one. And I'll think, oh my gosh, that was before her. And I can't even picture my life. My life has been so amazing ever since her. It's just been this incredible part of my life that I can't even

16:31picture my life without it. Can't even picture my life not going through it. And it was hard, but it was a beautiful heart. It was never once have I ever thought, did I do the right thing? I knew from the beginning that I was doing the right thing and I've always known I've done the right thing. And I love, love, love to talk about it. I love to talk about her. I love to talk about my experience. It's just been an amazing part of my life and I just can't even picture what my life

17:03would have been like without this experience. It's 100% shaped who I am today. And it's, I can't picture not having this experience. Sorry, I am emotional. These are emotional interviews. They really are. I get so emotional during them too. And it's obviously more so for you, but yes. I really appreciate the vulnerability and the openness. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. What would you want expectant mothers who are thinking about

17:37adoption, but aren't really sure if it's right for them. What would you want them to know or to consider as they're trying to figure that out? I think openness is such an incredible thing. And I would want mothers to know that you can have this incredible relationship and you can know your child. Obviously it's going to be different for every situation. But it's so amazing when you know you're not ready to do it and you want your child to have more than you can give at that time.

18:15It's just such, it's funny because I'm finding myself saying all this stuff that people say to me and I'm like, no. People are always like, oh, you're so amazing. And I'm just like, no. I don't think of myself like that. I think of myself as any other parent. I made the decision that was right for my child and I did it because I loved her. And you just have to do what's right for you. And like I said, getting to know her family before helped tremendously, but I don't

18:49think that that's necessary. I think you can build that relationship even after you have and place a baby, if that's what you choose to do. So there's been great supports along the way. I've connected with a lot of other birth moms and it's been an amazing support for me. And I think that it's great to talk about. Talking about it is just really what helped me. And it's been so nice because adoption used to be kind of like more of like a not talk about thing.

19:20It was kind of more, yeah. And so just being able to talk about it and share my feelings on it, it's just incredible. And I think talking about it is so important. Yeah. That reminds me of something. I think Brene Brown said something on the lens of when you have secrecy surrounding something and makes it feel shameful, but when you have the openness, then it takes that shame away and that stigma away and makes it something that people

19:54can connect over instead and be more vulnerable and have stronger connections and relationships. I guess I think that's totally true. I was lucky enough to have, because I was so open about my experience, even going through it, I had a community support that was incredible through my church and through my family. Everyone just lifted me up and it's just been, yeah, I just think keep having it open and not being, not looking at it as a shameful thing.

20:25It's not a shameful thing whatsoever. And the fact that people still can look at it as a shameful thing is heartbreaking because it happens. It just happens. And you know what? Just everything, I believe everything happens for a reason. And so you know what? It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's nothing to be, I've never felt ashamed of it. Not once have I ever felt ashamed of it. But I think it came from the support I had from being so open and vulnerable about it.

20:59It sounds like you had a really incredible support system with so many visitors while you were in the hospital and then continued on, it sounded like, as you were doing. And I think that's a big deal. And I love how it seems like the support system helped you and now you're part of a support system helping your daughter. And it's just this perpetual support of helping one another because we all need that. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I went through, I know things are kind of different.

21:35I went through an agency and they were an agency that was used to being the support system for girls. And I think that that is common. I don't think that that's uncommon. I don't think everyone has a support system. But because of that, there were some negative things that happened. They said some things to her family that weren't true about me placing. And I never once

22:08gave the idea that I was going to change my mind. I never once hinted towards that. I was really adamant about just having her with me right after I gave birth for a little bit of time. That was something that was super important to me. But it didn't mean that I was going to change my mind, that I was going to do anything like that. But I think the agency took that and kind of twisted it a little bit to the family. And so you know what, the agency brought me the papers and I signed the papers. But other than that, the agency, they connected me with them

22:43and they got the paperwork together. But other than that, the agency didn't do much. Honestly, it's really best and ideal if we have other support systems so that we're not relying on an agency like that. Because it's just, I think, really hard to get that right in such a structured, corporate kind of funnel. Yeah. And I don't think the agency, I don't think that they, I don't think they were used to it. So they were like, there's something wrong here. This isn't

23:16how it normally goes. I don't know. It was kind of the one thing that was kind of upsetting when I placed her. Really hard. Well, and I feel like that time in the hospital is so sacred and it's very common for first moms to want to have lots of hospital time with their baby. That makes sense. And from my experience, from what I've seen, that's really healthy and important for both mom and baby. Interesting. So what would you hope for prospective adopted parents to understand

23:54about the experience of birth parents to help maybe build more empathy and compassion? I think communication. I know we've talked a lot about communication, but I really think that that's important. Communicating with the birth parent and just putting things all out there, how you want things to look, how you want things to go. And just letting them know that you're there and that for me, it was so important knowing how she was doing and what her life was like.

24:29I've met, over the years, I talked about it so much that I've met a lot of people that are adopted that have been in close adoptions and they've just said, I just, I want to know who my birth parents are. It's something I've always wanted to do. And I'm so grateful that she hasn't had to do that. That she's known, that she's always known. She's always known that I've loved her and that I'm here for her if she needs anything. And her parents have been instrumental in giving her

25:04that opportunity to have that with me. And I think they are amazing for that. They've been so great at making me part of their life. And the mom would send me pictures and it's like, I was just as excited as her about everything. You don't always, grandparents and aunts and uncles and friends are excited, but they don't have that excitement that a birth parent has when something

25:35happens, a milestone or something like that. And her mom was just, is just incredible at that. She's amazing and I'm so grateful for her in my life. I can't even imagine her not in my life. And she's one of my very best friends and I can talk to her about anything and everything. And she's incredible. And I think that is something that perspective birth parents can know and can understand that it can be so amazing. I actually, we were talking

26:12a couple of weeks ago, her last week, and actually I asked her if I could share this, but she said that she always had that fear that when she was disciplining her girls or, you know, kind of having to be a strict parent that her girls would always then want to choose their birth parent over that. And I think that that's probably a very valid fear that all adoptive parents have. I don't want to speak for adoptive parents because I'm not one and I can't understand

26:42what that's like. But she said that, it seemed like probably every adoptive parent has probably had that fear at some point or another. And I just said to her, like, but you have set this foundation with her that you are her mom. I'm not her mom. I am just a person that loves her as much as her mom, but I am not that person. And she has done such a good job teaching her girls that, that I just, while the fear is there, I just know that it's just how she's raised them.

27:20That would never cause any issues. Really beautiful to hear how your relationship is so strong and it's such an easy relationship to let insecurities in and threaten each person's placement, but it sounds like you and her mom have done a really good job working together and fighting off those insecurities because of course it's natural for insecurities to try to creep in, but it doesn't make that way.

27:55I've loved hearing about your support system. Is there anything specific that was particularly helpful for you that you might want to share as advice for other people trying to support new mothers and birth mothers trying to help them through this process? I just think letting me talk, talk through it and talk it out has been such a great thing. I am such a person that talking things out really, really helps me and supports me. And I think, you know,

28:26asking questions and letting me talk it through has been such a great thing. When I started at my new job, one of my friends worked in the adoption part of the nonprofit I worked for and she was incredible at just listening and just being there as a support and just knowing. I think the hardest thing is when people are like, oh, so this was like when she was younger. Oh, so do you like, does she come and like sleep over and stuff? And I'm like, what? Like, no.

29:01Like, I'm, I, that's, that's not, and I, I know it's innocent. People ask questions and they don't know and it's totally innocent. But I remember always being like, no, she's got her family and I'm not like, no. And, and so I think people just like being open and honest and talking about things is helpful. So do you feel like the openness in your adoption has affected your healing for

29:32better or for worse? Oh, for better, 100% for better. I couldn't have done this without it. I, I knew that from the beginning, if I was, if I was going to do this and I knew I was, but I knew it had to be open. That was the number one thing I, it's been incredible. I, like I said before, like I said before, there's never been a day that I doubted my decision or anything like that. It's so helpful. I love, I love seeing her. I love getting together with her. It's been so amazing to watch her grow into this beautiful, amazing, she's amazing young girl. She's so sweet and kind

30:07and well-rounded and just happy and, oh, I can't even, it's, it's made my healing just made my heart so happy to see her and just the amazing girl that she is. Beautiful. All right. So what do you feel like some of the biggest challenges we as an adoption community face? Do you have any thoughts on that and how we could help address those? I think there's still that negative stigma. I do think that there's still people that see it as negative. I think, oh, the most hurtful thing

30:44ever. And I still hear it. And I, I can't believe it's even still a thing, but like you didn't want your child. I think that's the hardest, worst part about this whole thing is it's like that is not the case whatsoever. And I, sadly, I think that that's still around and I think that that still happens. And I, and I think I have people in my life telling me, oh, I don't think it's a good idea that it's open. I don't, I don't, and I just, how could it not be a good idea? How could it not

31:18be a beautiful thing where she knows me and she knows that she was loved? How could that be negative? And unfortunately, I think there's still people out there that feel that way. And it's, it's hard. I still meet people today that for the most part, people think it's amazing the openness in the bottom, but there's still people that I get plenty reactions from. I think just the negative stigma about a pregnant woman who is it in a place to raise a child. I think that's just something

31:53that I think it's old school. I don't know if I should use that word, but I do think it's old school and I, it's still happening. So. Yeah, I think that a lot more education is needed here. And I'm not sure how to go about that, but. I just think talking about it is I, so much of what I've said is about talking and communication, but I do think that that is going to be the best part of it. And I think as, as now we've, we've had open adoptions be more of a thing for longer. I think it'll slowly,

32:25I hope it'll slowly start, you know, people are going to start seeing these adults that had open relationships where that's kind of not, we're just kind of getting into that era, I think. And seeing, seeing how positive it's been on them. Well, I have loved hearing your thoughts, Sara Jane. Is there anything else you want to share today? I would love to hear any more thoughts that you want to share. I just, I'm so grateful that you had me on here. It's so fun to talk about. I love, I love it. It's such a part of my life, a big part of who I am as a person. And I just,

32:57I love talking about it. So it's so fun to connect with people that I've had similar experiences, because it's not, it's not as common as you would think. So it's always fun to talk about. And I'm always, I'm always happy to talk about it. So I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project. We hope you found this content helpful and enjoyable. If so, we'd love for you to share

33:30it with a friend or an acquaintance, but it might help. We'd also love to connect with you on social media or on Instagram at Open Adoption Project, or you can look us up on our website, openadoptionproject.org. Thanks so much for being here with us and learning with us.

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