“I Don’t Think I Would Have Chosen Adoption Without Openness” with Leah Outten

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project, we're the Nelsons. I am Lanette. And I'm Shaun. In recognition of National Adoption Month, we have decided as a podcast family to create a little more content. Lanette and I and Alisha Gallagher, who is our Director of Communications, are doing some extra interviews and conversations with friends to help us in the adoption community learn more. So during the month of November, you can expect that we'll be in your newsfeed a little bit more. We hope that this is valuable to you and that it enriches your National Adoption Month.

0:37We are here on the podcast with Leah. Leah, thank you so much for being here with us. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be able to share my story over the last 19 years and just what that could look like. And just honored to be included in this conversation. Thank you so much. We are honored to have you here. To start off, can you tell us a bit about you? Yeah, so I guess the short version is I've been a birth mom for 19 years. I have five kids that I parent.

1:07I had two teen pregnancies, one where I chose adoption at 16 and one that I choose to parent with my now husband at 19. And both of those have really shaped my life and just shaped my career and just impacted so much in my life. And the long version of that is my open adoption story is that I was 16 when I found out that I was pregnant and really was set on parenting for most of my pregnancy because I just I loved her.

1:39I was really bonded with her quickly and just felt like she had a purpose in this world. And I was excited to be a mom and I was just going to buckle down and make it happen. And I had really wonderful parents who were very supportive and got me into counseling right away and just told me to make an informed decision. So I didn't feel pressured to make an adoption decision, but they wanted me to just be wise and to make sure that adoption was not what I wanted to do.

2:10And as the time went by and her birth father had completely stepped out of the picture, so I really felt some alone and rejection from that. And so counseling was helpful to heal from that. But I knew I was doing this alone and the more that the time kept going by, it just it didn't feel right to to be her mom and to parent her because I grew up in a single mom home and I have a relationship with my dad. It was a lot of back and forth. It was, you know, it was it was kind of it was really hard at times.

2:44And I really just had this feeling that I wanted her to have a different kind of life and to set her up to have a two parents stability home. And just have things different than what I could offer her at that time. And so around seven months is when that really pressed into my heart and I made that decision. And there was there was some exploration of adoption, I would say probably from five to seven months. And the only thing back then into this was 2003, 2004, there wasn't Facebook, there wasn't a lot of Internet was really just coming around.

3:22And so I found some hotmail groups that had some some teen mom groups and some adoption groups. And that was really the most impactful thing of hearing other people's stories who were in similar situations of the hardships of both teen parenting and with adoption. But what really opened my eyes was that there was open adoption. And I saw some adoptive moms who had a heart for birth moms who wanted their their child's birth mom in their life. And that was just amazing to me that someone would be so open hearted and willing to share their life with a birth mom.

3:58And and I found one of my best friends was a birth mom that I found in this group. And she had just placed a few months before. And so I was really walking and seeing her journey a few steps ahead. And so that was amazing to see their relationship. And I don't think I would have chosen adoption without open adoption. And so that was really what changed my path and my decision, because I loved her so much and I wanted her to know that I loved her.

4:29All I had seen was closed adoption where there were so many questions and wondering what who do I look like and where do I come from medical history? And I never wanted her to feel that I didn't want her to love her. And I wanted to watch her grow. And I really felt like that could help me to kind of accept adoption as a middle ground and a and a just the best plan for that time in my life. So, like I said, at seven months, that's when I made my decision and things quickly fell into place.

5:03I told my social worker who had been my counselor, OK, I'm ready. And it was obviously very, very difficult. It was a very humbling, devastating decision. But it was the first time I finally felt peace that I that I could kind of I could just trust that this was the best plan for her. And I was looking for a family who was in my same state so we could have an open adoption and have visits.

5:33And I was looking for a two parent family home and I was looking for a family who already had a child because I wanted to guarantee that she would have a sibling. And I wanted to see how they would how they already were parenting or if they were already walking through adoption, what that looked like for them. And so I felt like those things set me up to find the perfect family. And the very first profile was the one that I really connected with. And it was just mostly visual clues of like, oh, she looks like she could blend in with them and he they had the same kind of dog that I had grown up with.

6:09There's just like these they reminded me of my dad and my step mom and just visual clues that felt comfortable and familiar. But then then a profile letter to me, it just felt like their heart was so evident in that of that. They loved me, too, and that was the first time I felt that from someone offering to adopt my baby because I had other family and family friends and people offering. And I didn't feel that it those felt very icky and just felt like let me make my decision. But these people and the way they worded things, they it just felt like I mattered to.

6:44And so we I chose the very first profile looked at we met in person and just really clicked instantly. And we're on the same page with a lot of things. And they were everything that if I could parent, they are who I'd want to be. And so we we just had a set of very similar vision of adoption. And largely, that was because they're the first child who was adopted, had a different story and they didn't have the openness.

7:15And so they that really led them to want more with me because they found themselves as he was growing, wanting to reach out to his birth mom and share, you know, he did this today or he looked like you here today. And so I think that was just really neat how it shaped their heart and mind to like really be in the middle and find what was best for both of us. So and from there, we spent two months getting to know each other. We had visits even during that time, just really building that relationship even before she was born and talking about,

7:48like, what does this look like and what is she going to call you and talking about how they will talk about adoption and talk about me. So it was a really beautiful time to help build trust with each other even before she was born. Yeah. And, you know, when she was born, they were there at the hospital and I just felt, you know, I had all my important people around me and I just felt like it was a family reunion that all these people that I loved and love me and love her were there for me.

8:19And I know that not a lot of seems like that's a rare option for birth mothers, that they may not have that. And so I really treasure my hospital experience. It was a very positive experience, even with the grief and the loss and the tears and all the things that were coming. But in those hospital moments, it just felt so precious and protected. And it was just a really beautiful time. And of course, after birth, it was it was difficult, grieving and the reality setting in and the physical reminders that she wasn't with me anymore.

8:58But her family was so great and just, you know, they they really made sure that I was getting what I needed from them during those times. And so they would, you know, they would call me with updates of like, we went to the doctor today and here's what she weighs now and all those kinds of things. And then we had our first visit at a week old because I was having a really hard time and I just missed her and I missed them. And so they welcomed me into their home. We were about we've always been two to three hours apart for our just for context.

9:30So, you know, we traveled to their home for the weekend and it was really amazing and helpful to see her in her environment with her new family, with her, you know, her big brother. And it really solidified for me that I had made the right decision. And again, just left with peace of like, this is where she's meant to be and it's going to be OK. And so I'm really grateful they took that risk because at the in North Carolina, I had, I think, 10 days to change my mind.

10:01And so I'm sure they had fears of like she could change her mind when she sees her. But it really meant a lot to that they trusted me to, you know, even if it even if I did change my mind, they trusted that. But they were willing to take that that risk, I guess you could say, from their side to make sure that this was the right thing for me. And they had even told me that in the hospital before signing that they wanted to make sure that this was my decision and like, well, it's, you know, whatever you decide, this is your decision and this is your baby.

10:34And so I feel like they just kept showing that in ways like that that really showed that I mattered and that my voice mattered and my opinions matter and my healing matters. So throughout the first year, they they just kept showing up in that way and loved me and provided updates and photos. And we had visits on average once a month for the first several years, even though our adoption agreement was only two times a year, just because it naturally felt comfortable for us.

11:07And we were building that relationship and it was really helpful in my healing to see her so often and to literally watch her grow and that she was still comfortable to be around me. You know, she would still fall asleep on me and just being a part of those everyday moments of where I could feed her a bottle or I could pick out her outfit for the day or things like that. And that they allowed those things and nurtured our bond along with their own and just included me as like an extended part of their family.

11:39And it and it wasn't in a co-parenting way. It was just like, hey, you know, come come hang out with us for the weekend. And it was just it was a really wonderful time and helped me on the hard days, knowing that I had these moments and these photos and things to kind of cling to and remember. And so that made it again worth it and just kept bringing me peace that I had made the right decision. And then her elementary years was when I was finishing up college, I was getting you know, I was married, I was growing my own family.

12:15And so things were much more busy. And so we went down to our two times a year visits. And those were wonderful, too. They were always, you know, big family events where it really felt like her whole family, adoptive parents and birth family were coming together, like my like my siblings, my my parents, along with her grandparents and things like that. So it was really amazing to literally see how her this love surrounding her in these in our traditional yearly visits.

12:48And then when she got to a teenager, that's when she started to have more questions. And so she started to express like, I would like more one on one time with you. And, you know, she asked to stay at my house for the first time. And so that that was an exciting thing for me that I got to, again, be trusted with that that time. And because we had 10 years to really build our foundation of friendship and, you know, they know my house, they know my husband, they know we're safe people to do that.

13:25And so we started with one night and that kind of started a new tradition since she was about 10 that she comes every summer and stays. And that sometimes grown to like this last July, she stayed for a whole month. And so, you know, that's that's been really special memories to really intensively know each other and a lot of a lot of ways that short little visits you can't necessarily. And it's been really good to grow our my direct relationship with our daughter.

13:57And I just I'm so grateful for her parents that they've nurtured that. And it means a lot to my the birth siblings of her that are in my house. Their relationship is amazing to see. And it means just as much to them as it does to me. So that's kind of a big picture of our journey so far the last 19 years. Wow. Yeah, that's beautiful. I love that. I've heard from one adoptee who's older now, who also did like summers with her birth family.

14:28They lived in a different state and it sounded like just the most precious time. I love that you guys were able to do that, too. Yeah, it's that those are always the highlight of our summers. And we make sure that we we have like a bucket list of things that's like, I want to have our first this or our first that or I want to make sure we do this together. So that's been a really fun to intentionally create time and memories together that I just feel grateful because I know it's not always an option in adoption.

15:02And it's we don't take it for granted at all. I love that so much. All right. So with your experience where openness has stayed pretty consistent throughout your experience, what would you share with those who might be hesitant about exploring open adoption? I can say. For I think the biggest thing that. I think as she's 19 and we've kind of gone through many seasons through as a birth mom,

15:36because I know some birth moms can even be hesitant that for me, it's always been helpful to see her and to be here to assure her you are loved, you are wanted. I'm here for you. And whatever those questions are, whatever you need, like I'm an extra support person in her life and to watch her grow and be part of her milestones and be a part of her life throughout the year has been really healing for me. And it's I would say from her side, it's been it's very obvious the difference between our relationship, between birth mother and daughter,

16:15how that is helped her to have those answers and those medical history and our memories together and being able to come to me with, you know, like our talents are similar or like, you know, how do I how did you feel about this? Our personalities are very similar or the food we eat is similar, like all those nature questions. We can relate on those levels in that that she can't miss in some cases with her adoptive family. So it helps her to with those identity pieces to grow up with that.

16:46And and also seeing the contrast between how she doesn't have that on her birth father's side, there's a lot more rejection, there's a lot more identity pieces that are missing, medical history pieces that are missing, and she struggles a lot more with that. And so having her to have the you know, when we met the first time, her dad said to me, her adoptive dad said to me, you know, you're an important piece to her life puzzle and we want you here to help fill in these pieces that we can't. And that's our vision of open adoption is to together collectively provide her with all the pieces that we can together.

17:25And that's that's our picture of open adoption and what what keeps us going and what keeps us motivated to do things in a healthy way and support her through all this. And I feel like that has benefited her as an adoptee to have a safe places on both sides of her family to to land and to stand on and to know that she's well loved throughout her years. And I know so I work with clients who are prospective adoptive parents and there, I understand there can be hesitation, especially when you don't know about what open adoption really is and what it can look like.

18:02And maybe my level of open adoption sounds really scary, but, you know, there are different levels of it. There's different comfort levels. And I think just making sure that you're really you're not making decisions out of fear, but you're really educating yourself to know the benefits of it, how to do it, the different ways that are possible, why it's, you know, how it really benefits your child that you love. And at the end of the day, like the birth mother and you both love your child. So coming together to do that is just providing more love.

18:36And usually when I share my story and just like the gratitude that I have for the adoptive parents that I'm not trying to take their place, that I fully respect their their place as her parents and that I honor that and that they do that for me and just having that open hearted love for one another that it tends to help soften and just create a little more like, okay, that sounds doable and that sounds really beautiful. So I would just say listen to lots of different stories and what has things that are helpful like this story and things that have been hurtful in the harder stories.

19:14That's fantastic advice and I love what you said. So if someone listening is thinking, wow, that's really open and that sounds scary. I think it's important to recognize that also your openness grew over time. I loved that one week after placement you were in their home and that there was that trust there too. But then it continues growing, right? That's how relationships work. They grow and strengthen and it's trust takes time, but you can get there. And it's not scary when it has this organic flow of you have a little trust and it builds and builds and it just grows over time.

19:51I love that. That's a good point. Yeah. And I also loved your puzzle analogy. That's one that I've used too. And I think it's a great way of describing how openness can help and adopt a grow up feeling more whole and complete. Exactly. Yeah, love that. So how do you think that your experiences as a birth mom have shaped your life? I feel like it's touched every part of my life. It affects how I think the first thing that affected me was it grew my writing.

20:25I started writing and journaling as a way of processing and healing. And that turned into a blog and that turned into like writing books. And that turned into like my career is writing, healing curriculums and educational curriculums and content. And so like I never would have imagined that I would be working in the adoption world when I was 16. That was just a really neat, I think, bonus. And as a mother now, it's made me appreciate motherhood even more because I didn't have it in the traditional sense the first time around.

21:07So I've really just treasured those moments more because I didn't miss. I miss things with her in her daily to day life. Or when we have visits, I'm treasuring those little moments of like, oh, I got to pick you up from car line today. And that was, you know, or I got to pack your lunch today or I got to take care of you when you were sick. And those are like little things that I didn't have with her. But it makes me treasure just those little moments even more.

21:37That's beautiful. Yeah. So what would you hope the expectant mothers who are thinking about maybe choosing adoption, what would you hope that know as they're trying to figure out what the right choices for them? And I think, again, listening to lots of different stories, that's where I found the most help was hearing not just like a pamphlet of what adoption is, but like how it's lived and how it can look for different stories.

22:07And that's just the biggest the biggest thing. And then again, listening to the hard stories of what went wrong and what can be done differently and how to know how to advocate for yourself and to that you have rights in areas and that you deserve a support system around you. And if that isn't your family, like there's other people that can help you through that and that you're just not alone. You're not alone in it. And there's so many other people who have been in your shoes or will walk through your shoes.

22:37And there's people who do want to help you through all this as you make your decision and to not feel pressured into it. It's a very altering decision for the rest of your life. And it's one you have to live with every single day. So really making sure that you feel complete at peace with it. And if you feel any reservations, don't do it. And to really figure out what it is that doesn't feel right. Same thing when you're if you're choosing adoption and that feels right, but the family you choose feels off.

23:08There's some red flags. Don't choose them because you want to make sure you're on the right path with the right people in your life and that you're going to connect with the same vision for adoption. That's where I see I feel like I see a lot of issues working in adoption is people have different expectations of what this should look like. And doors get closed or they stop responding and you really want to make sure that everybody's heart is really invested into it, into entrusting each other and committed to this.

23:40So if something feels off, it probably is. So make sure you have peace. That's beautiful. So you talked about how the hospital was actually a really beautiful, obviously hard, but also a beautiful experience for you. Was there anything that you did beforehand or conversations you had with the adoptive parents? If do you think that there is anything that helped with that? I feel like my social worker was a big part of that because we had a hospital plan in place of just talking through when do you want them to come?

24:13Do you want them in the room? Do you want them there at all? Just really, we sat down the month before she was born and thought through all these things that I just had to sit and think emotionally. What will I want? And obviously, those things can change when you're in the moment and things are you're feeling things differently physically and emotionally. But I think it was helpful to sit and think through. I want this or I don't want this. And so I think it was that was helpful to kind of plan and to try to work through all those things.

24:49And they were just really respectful as adoptive families of like, we'll be there if you want us there. We'll leave if you don't. It was very much like I was in control of everything. And so I think that has a big part of the positivity that I had in my parents very much protected my space and time. If I was struggling emotionally, there was some hard like we had an adoption ceremony, which I wanted. And it was really great where like the people that I wanted to have the chance to meet her before she left for her home,

25:23you know, grandparents and pastors and special teachers and things like that, they they all we all came together. And I wanted to kind of it was kind of like a new chapter, not a wedding ceremony, but in the sense, it's like you're starting this new chapter together as a family. And so I really wanted to honor that. And it was beautiful, but it was so emotional. And so at the end of that, I was like, I need everybody to leave. And my parents really protected me and my needs and were just really attuned to that.

25:54And, you know, I just felt like people were constantly checking in on me and making sure that I was good. And the nurses were seen to be all very educated and aware of our situation. And for the most part, we had a great experience with staff. I've heard birth mothers have bad experiences with staff. It just felt like the people that were chosen to be in this room, they were very caring.

26:27And I know you can't control all of that, but it was helpful to have people who were willing to advocate for my needs throughout the several days. That's awesome. So your parents also, I love how they were advocating for you and helping protect your space and whatever you needed. That's awesome. And I also love how you pointed out that you feel like the adoptive parents were respectful of the boundaries you needed. And as you've talked, it's clear that you've been respectful of them. And I think that's a really key part of having a successful open adoption relationship where there's mutual respect on both sides, trust and respect.

27:05And yeah, it needs to come on both sides. So I love that. Thank you. Yeah, I agree. Those are two big components and healthy communication. Those are some of the foundations that are so vital for both sides, just like in a marriage. It's just that intentionality of I love you, I respect you. And it just makes for a better experience and everybody can commit to that. Yeah, I love that. So you have talked about how important education is in adoption.

27:41And I'm just so curious. You've talked about how you work in adoption. I'd love to hear more about what you do. Yeah. So like I said, I started writing many years ago, just sharing my story and like updates of, you know, this is what we did on our visit and things like that. And that turned into writing articles about adoption education and just sharing about open adoption tips, talking about communication and respect and honoring each other's roles and those kinds of things.

28:11And so what now with that looks like for the last five years or so, I my heart has really been to educate adoptive families and and those in the process, because I feel like if I can help an adoptive family see how scary birth mothers that were not scary and that we really just love our children and just want to be a part of their lives and just to watch them grow. And that's just what open adoption can look like.

28:42And that even if it doesn't look like this version of it, having a soft heart and compassion towards the birth mother and helping to love her, that benefits the birth mother. But it also benefits the adoptive family to have like we talked about medical history and just having those connections, which benefits the adoptees. There's just like this trickle effect. And and so a lot of times that looks like for me, I'm educating people starting with their profile book, because that's the first words that they are seeing or sharing their heart with an expectant mom that's reading this.

29:18And that's where it started with me was reading the words that they had shared with me that made me feel seen and loved and valued. And so I just helped them to know how to be sensitive towards the reader and just what she's going through and how to just share their hearts more and not just be like, pick me, pick me, but like really using it as an opportunity to to love her. And even if she doesn't pick them or not, like helping her to know, like you're cared for and prayed for, whatever is whatever words they want to use and just making sure their personality is in there.

29:57Because profile books can all start looking the same after a while. So really make making sure that they share what is unique to them and what they can what they just how they live their life so that the right person will be drawn to them. And so in that in that kind of tangible part of their process, it ends up being an educational opportunity to share of how her adoptive family has helped me so much. So I do a lot of consultation calls of those kinds of things with the profile book or after they have a placement.

30:32And they're like, OK, now we're walking open adoption. What do I do now? This is now I know the situation and now I know how she responds and now I know where she lives or, you know, how do I make this work with what we have now? And so that's been really rewarding to just to help people figure out what their journey is and just different ideas of how to include the birth parent into their life and into their into their everyday home language and things like that. That's amazing. I love that. Yeah, it's very rewarding. And it's you know, since I've been doing it several years, I've had people come back and be like, I would not have this relationship or I wouldn't have even considered it unless I had heard your story.

31:12And so that's really rewarding to see, like, this is why I'm sharing and why stories matter, because it helps other people to learn from it. And so that's rewarding. Yeah, that's awesome. And I think that having a birth mom as a consultant, that just makes sense as you're navigating these relationships with other birth parents, making sure that you have a more balanced perspective like that. That's really cool. Yeah, thank you.

31:43So how did you and your daughter's adoptive parents end up figuring out what openness would look like and what it would feel like? Do you have any tips or resources on how you guys figured that out? So for us, I think one, I was taking assessment of what I thought I could emotionally handle at the minimum. And so for me, that was two times a year, every summer, every December. And I was like, that feels like that's doable.

32:17And again, we were in the same state. So that helped us to be a few hours apart and to make those visits happen. So I think location is a big part of it and the emotional capacities. And that was something that we both agreed on, that that was doable. And that was kind of the bare minimum of it. And like I said, it just evolved differently than that. Through the different seasons, it was a lot more. And through some seasons, it was just that.

32:52And now we're at a place where our daughter is like, hey, I need like quarterly visits because six months is too long. And so like it changes. We talked about the flexibility of it. It changes through the years. It gets built on throughout the years. And adding her voice into it, too, has been neat, too, that she feels safe to ask for what she needs to and what would be helpful to her. So, I mean, tips wise, like I mean, a lot of it does depend on location.

33:24I talked to a lot of clients who are, you know, states apart. And so visiting two times a year, maybe even once a year, is impossible. But I think knowing that technology has come along since 2004 and like FaceTime is a thing. And there's so many apps to share photos and there's you know, you can still send packages. You can still include her in so many different ways. And just figuring out what that works, what works for everybody time wise, location, financially,

33:54you know, schedule a FaceTime visit every every other month or something like there's so many different things that have come along to help include her into little things. One tip I had, which that's not necessarily deciding what is, you know. How to figure out what it looks like for you, but one one thing that I loved that one client thought of was that the first year she had two baby books and one was filled out for her

34:25and one was filled out for the birth mom and gave it to her on the first birthday. And I just thought that was the neatest thing that all those moments and milestones that she wasn't physically around for it was documented for her. And what a gift that is. And it was such a small thing that just took a few minutes once a month maybe to do. And like I can just imagine having received that with such a gift that like you thought of me every month for this for this amount of time. And I just it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be just visits or these grand things

35:00or trips together, which are great. They're very impactful. But there's little things within open adoption that's just I'm thinking of you today. And I wanted you to know this or a quick text of her smile. Don't just like you today or hey, I'm just thinking of you. How are you doing? It doesn't have to be the grand things all the time. Oh, yeah. I love that. Beautiful. Thank you. So in your experience, what do you think some ways that others can support

35:30birth parents and help them address any trauma and struggles that they're facing would be? I think initially, I was 16. So I was still in my parents home. So it was kind of a more natural. I had a support system around me. So I didn't have to make meals. I didn't have to, you know, have take care of other kids. I didn't have to do school. I didn't have to work. I didn't have

36:00like I was in a protective, youthful bubble. But there are so many birth moms who aren't in that place where they're adults. They have other children. They have to go to work, you know, pretty soon after birth. And so I think as a community, if you can recognize those things of like, she needs rest and healing, perhaps even more than a new mom who's parenting. And so, you know, we make meal trains for new moms. Why are we not doing that for birth moms? Why are we not providing, you know, pampering things to her? I mean, one thing that my parents

36:33did as well was they threw me a Lea shower instead of a baby shower. They're like, this is something that would have been part of your experience. And we just want to love on you and support you and give you gifts to help, you know, heal and to have something to look forward to. And so I got things like spa gift cards and mall gift cards to go shopping after, you know, my belly went down. And back then scrapbooking was the thing to document my memories with her. So I got a lot of things like that just to really document my experience and take care of myself

37:06for a little bit. And that was really, really meaningful that again, I felt so seen and loved and treasured, not because I was having a baby, but because they loved me as a person. And so that's another idea that you throw her some kind of celebration or prayer time or things like that to just help her to know like, you need care too. And we see that. And I mean, counseling was a big

37:39part of my healing. And I know some agencies are great about providing that for a lifetime. And or groups or things like that being community with other birth moms is huge. And I think it can be a struggle like financially or to even know about them of like where groups are available or retreats or things like that. And so helping her to know like, like if you are in the open adoption, you're like, oh, I heard about this retreat, would you want to go like I can help

38:10sponsor you to get there or help pay travel expenses, you know, help her to know that there's options out there to meet other birth moms, because that's so impactful to be with someone who really understands the depth of your aches and your joys. And so helping her to get to things like that, if she's if she's open to that and comfortable. I think that was the biggest thing. And there's so many there's so much I'm grateful how the adoption community is

38:40acknowledging more of this. And there are so many more resources, but there's still so much work to do. Yeah, absolutely. So as you think about openness in your experience, and maybe how it might have affected healing or stress, or mediated stress, how do you feel like openness ultimately affected your experience? For me, it was a beneficial part of my healing, because I could see her and know

39:14her throughout the years and create our own memories. It's always made me feel like my adoption was worth it, that my pain was worth it for her good and for what we do have together. Like I said, I don't think I could have done adoption without open adoption. And I don't think it's added. I would I don't think it's added stress until maybe recently when she's gotten older, and she's more of an adult. And so we're as a as a group, we're trying to support her and kind of

39:47spreading her wings. And she's got her own, you know, figuring out who she is. And it's gotten more complex as she's gotten older. And, and just figuring out how to do that as a birth parent, an adoptive parent. And being on I don't know how to explain that just, just knowing how to do that, just being able there's so many different opinions and different ways of doing things, and just

40:17helping her to know how to become an adult, and still respecting each other's different, different ways of doing things. And so it's gotten, I would say it's been a little more stressful and a little more complex as she's gotten older, and like her voice is in it too, which is a good thing. But we just want to make it it's it's I feel like I have to be even more careful to really

40:47not filter myself, but just to really be honoring. And just it's just even more intentional, it was easier to do that when she was younger. And now with her voice mixed in, it can be it's just it makes it more complex. But you know, we're figuring out what it looks like an open adoption in a teen world, almost adult world. Well, and it sounds like you guys have done a great job of helping her have her voice in those conversations. Like you talked about when

41:17she was about 10 started doing the sleepovers. And that was something that she was asking for, right? Yeah. So do you have any advice or thoughts on how all of the parents right, birth parents and adoptive can come together and help elevate the adoptees in their lives, voices and help them to feel comfortable saying whatever they're needing or expressing those feelings? I mean, a lot of that is her parents being encouraging of, it's okay to talk about

41:49these feelings. It's okay to talk about Leah, it's okay to talk about you miss her, it's okay to it's okay to feel whatever you're feeling. And I think that's the easiest and the number one thing is just reassuring that it's okay to talk about these things. And, and her parents and I have conversations privately all the time of like, okay, what's our game plan here? Or, hey, can you talk to her about this? Because she really respects you and looks up to you about this, and not in a manipulative way, but in a sense of like, we're a team, and we're coming together to support you in

42:25a united front, and helping me to understand their side of things and what they're seeing that I don't see, and vice versa. So if I have a concern that I can go to them, and things like that. So I think just having those open communications with all of us together and, and privately as well as been one of the most important parts of that. And so I think that's the best. Besides talking about adoption and making it a safe place to express all the hard things. It's communication with the whole

43:01with everybody. That's the best things you can do. Beautiful. So what do you think some of the biggest challenges that the adoption community faces? And do you have any thoughts on what we could do to help? Improve our community? Like, well, like I said before, I think we've come a long way that I've seen in the last 19 years of just the conversations we're having on social media. There's just a lot more awareness and a lot more stories being shared. And I think that's really great. And a big part of the movement we're

43:39seeing to help support birth mothers and adoptees and adoptive parents, but especially having more of the adoptees voices and birth parent voices and acknowledging that it's not all roses, but it is trauma and it is hard. And so I think those are great things. I still think there's work to be done. And, you know, like I talked about with supporting birth mothers more postpartum, that's a huge thing I've seen. And I don't know, there's so much. I would love to see, I don't know,

44:18it's hard because I've had such a positive experience and so many haven't had that. And so I'm hoping that people can gather through positive experiences like mine of what can work for them. And having that support system and where to find that if you don't have a supportive family or you feel like you have to hide your adoption or things like that, that there's people who, like people need to know that there are people out there who authentically want to help and don't have an agenda that they just, that needs to be the forefront of adoption or just, you know,

44:56unexpected pregnancy in general of just not having to walk through their story alone. I don't know. I think a lot of it comes down to tangible things though of, you know, like providing meals and helping to financially cover counseling or get to retreats, providing books or, I don't know, there's so many different things. But I'm kind of blanking on what else, I don't know what good action steps would be, but there's

45:29definitely a lot of need, there's a lot of hurt people. And so our work is definitely not done and a lot more awareness outside of the adoption community needs to keep happening. And so I'm hopeful that it will keep improving as people keep talking about things. Wonderful. All right. Well, as we wrap up, I would love to hear more about your book. Can you share about your book? Yes. So I wrote a memoir of my adoption story. So it dies into all the things you've talked about,

45:59plus a whole lot more. And, you know, it's, you know, a dream that's been on my heart since I was 16 and just felt like I was really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, just felt like it just needed to be in a book because it has been impacting, you know, other people's view of adoption and like how to do open adoption for years. And people kept telling me, you need to write a book, you need to write a book. So finally got it done. And it's interesting

46:32that it will come out like, yeah, this hopefully December, 2023 is the goal. And at that point, I will have been pregnant like 20 years before that. It's just like an interest day. Like she'll turn 20 soon. And so it just, it's an interesting, just not a completion because our story is still going and still growing, but it's just interesting timing. And yeah, so it dives into a lot more details of how my community supported me, my parents, our, you know, our initial conversations

47:07as between her adoptive parents and mine and just how we built our relationship through the years and the complexities of adoption now that she's a little older and what that's looked like. We know what those longer visits look like when she's more immersed into our family and how that can create a more realness to things. And, you know, we have conflict for the first time and things like that. So it talks through lots of different things. Well, that's amazing. That sounds like an awesome memoir and resource as well for others.

47:41Yes, I hope so. So where can people find you or connect with you online? So my website's Leah Outten. That's my name. You spell O-U-T-T-E-N. It's not pronounced anything weird. People make it harder than it is. And also on Instagram and Facebook under Leah Outten. And my book title is called The 16th Year, just so you know. So it's, yeah. So my birth daughter named it and she designed the cover. So it was neat to get her. She's a great artist. So it was neat to kind

48:16of work on that together. And yeah, it's, I'm mostly on Instagram. I, that's, it's like the easiest way to kind of quickly jot ideas down or memories that we're doing or having. So, yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, is there anything else that you want to share today? I don't think so. Yeah. Leah, it's been such a treat to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here with us. We've

48:46learned a lot. Oh, thank you. It's, it's always an honor to be able to be invited into a conversation and just I hope that it's helpful to people out there. And if you have questions, I welcome them. I love hearing from people and just, you know, there's so many different stories and experiences. So feel free to message me if you have a question or I would love to hear from people.

49:17Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Open Adoption Project. We've hope you found this content helpful and enjoyable. If so, we'd love for you to share it with a friend or an acquaintance that it might help. We'd also love to connect with you on social media or on Instagram at Open Adoption Project, or you can look us up on our website, openadoptionproject.org. Thanks so much for being here with us and learning with us.

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