Preserving Culture with Anna Maria DiDio

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project, we're the Nelsons. I am Lanette. And I'm Shaun. In recognition of National Adoption Month, we have decided as a podcast family to create a little more content. Lanette and I and Alisha Gallagher, who is our Director of Communications, are doing some extra interviews and conversations with friends to help us in the adoption community learn more. So during the month of November, you can expect that we'll be in your newsfeed a little bit more. We hope that this is valuable to you and that it enriches your National Adoption Month.

0:36I am Alisha Gallagher, Director of Communications at the Open Adoption Project. You may hear me pop in on a few interviews here and there. Today, I'm really excited to welcome Anna Maria DiDio to the podcast. She is an adoptive mom and author of children's books on adoption. Anna Maria and her husband adopted a seven-year-old girl from a Mexican orphanage and, as she describes it, felt unprepared for the trauma of her daughter's experience in losing her culture. She was inspired to write a memoir, Love at the Border, an adoption adventure. Now she self-publishes children's books with the mission to encourage conversation between children and parents within blended families,

1:14focusing on the trauma and grief that is a part of every adoption journey. Anna Maria, thank you so much for being here with us today. Yes, it's great. Thank you so much for having me. So just to start things off, I feel like there's a lot in your story and a lot of different directions that we could take it. But I'm wondering if, to begin, can you share a brief overview of your experience with adoption? What brought you to the point where you are today? Well, as with many adoption stories, it began with infertility. So we had been trying for years to have a child.

1:49I had several miscarriages and we began exploring adoption solutions. And we had submitted paperwork, including a video and all kinds of great things. We had a good experience with this one agency and I got pregnant. So we had a beautiful baby girl. But then, of course, the infertility issues. By that point, I was a few years older and the infertility issues continued.

2:20And so we began to explore adoption solutions once again and went through a couple of signed on with with an agency with an open adoption process. But after a year of being on that waiting list, the agency went out of business. It was in another state really far from us. But and then as our daughter was getting older, we began to explore international adoption possibilities and just perchance happened upon this Mexican.

2:55It was really a camp, a summer camp for Mexican children in the local area. And some of those children were available for adoption. So that's how the process started. It's very interesting. So that I think you're right that a lot of adoption stories begin with infertility. So can you share a little bit more about that part of it? Was it a difficult decision to pursue adoption? Did you feel like you were giving up on this initial hope or did you feel like you had come to terms with the future of your family not looking like you had exactly anticipated?

3:32I'm sort of a very bottom line person. And when the various the diagnosis came through that the fertility cause was unknown. We had tried a number of things, you know, up to a certain point. And, you know, I had looked into adoption. But at the time, this was many years ago. And I just said, well, this I knew that I was meant to be a mother. I wanted a family.

4:02So that really outweighed everything. And I pursued it with all the vigor of looked into as much information as I could. I could find out and then went through the process, psychological evaluations and essays and references. And as I said, a video and then I was pregnant. So the commitment was there from the beginning. So we were very acquainted with it when the opportunity came the second time.

4:32So then take us through that process of meeting your daughter or like how did that go? I'm not really familiar with the summer camp situation that you described. So it was very unique. It was it was a and I don't know the initial connection between this church. It was a Catholic Church and they sponsored through through this other agency that wasn't quite an adoption agency. But this other agency that kind of sponsored the connection of the children coming to this summer camp.

5:07And it was kind of like an afterthought in the article. Some of these children are also available for adoption. So when I pursued it, the process was actually much larger than that because to meet the requirements for adoption in Mexico wasn't just what with this one little agency. It was obviously the same process psychological evaluation and references and many verification of all of your information and then 12 copies of your of your booklet to be notarized and all that.

5:43So we submitted all that and then just waited waited a year. And then a number of at the time private and government orphanages slash agencies were participating in the process. And one of them was this agency where this orphanage where our daughter had lived since she was a baby. She was brought there as a baby and she was six years old at the time. She spent birth to six years old in the orphanage and then did you go there to meet her specifically or were there other children that were available for adoption that you had met with as well?

6:26No, just just this one child that was kind of selected and we we spent two days in activities, a play. We went to a playground and we went out to lunch, went out to dinner just to kind of get acquainted as a family. We brought our daughter with us. So it was a family experience. But in retrospect, of course, I was wondering what what had she been told here? We brought gifts. It was fun. We went out and and many years later, she said, I didn't know who you were or what the heck you were doing.

7:01But so, you know, we were all kind of just ill prepared. And on Sundays, well, we met her. And then for a year, once we were cleared by the courts, we spoke to her every Sunday through a translator just to kind of check in. Hi, how are you? Again, she's I didn't know who you were. You kept calling me, but we sent some gifts and she really didn't understand until.

7:31Of course, and this is where the trauma comes in. I'm so all this is happening. So she goes to sleep one night in Mexico and the next day she's in our in our in a bedroom in our home in suburban Philadelphia. Can you imagine? Oh, yeah. So it was just traumatic. But we were really not prepared for that and not really thinking in that mindset of trauma. Just isn't this great? We're having our family is she's a wonderful she's she was adorable, of course, wonderful addition to our family.

8:06And and this was a transition that took many years. And at the time, I just did not recognize that when you met her, what did it feel like? I feel like there are a lot of adoption people who are concerned about adoption think I just don't know if it will feel like she is my daughter or will feel like strangers for a while. So what was that process like for you, especially having had a biological daughter previously? You know, I stressed about that as well.

8:38And and just meeting her and again, she didn't really know what was happening. But the time we spent in in Mexico at our at our dinner at our playdate, she was just the funniest, cutest, most adorable little kid and was spunky. And this this was a thought that was occurring to me as we were sitting there. I thought, well, you know, she's been chosen because she's so outgoing. She's strong. She's strong mentally.

9:08She's strong. She was like a little leader in the in her in her play group. You can see that. So I thought this will be this will be good. This will be she'll be able to to take this transition. But again, not really even understanding how big that was. So, well, yeah, it actually sounds like the agency did a good job of that initial meeting, facilitating a couple of days of getting to know each other and spending time together. And then you said it was a year before she was able to come home with us.

9:41Yeah. So a year of facilitating phone calls. Were there conversations about or training or support that you received on helping her with her transition? No, not really. I mean, I had read read some books about adoption, but not not to the extent that I understand it now. And, you know, fast forward literally a few years when I stumbled upon the book, The Primal Wound and so many of the traumatic behaviors that we were the way trauma kind of manifested itself in her behavior.

10:21What we were seeing was so on point with that book. I mean, the light just it started dawning on me that this was really all part of her transition. So honestly, and again, that was really the the impetus for writing these these books. I I I knew that I needed to convey the message to other adoptive parents that all adoption begins with separation and loss. Let's recognize that. Let's talk about it.

10:52And I've had some other adoptees say to me that, you know, books like mine save lives. I mean, there's just so much invested in this, I'll say, adoption myth. When when there's understanding on both sides, what is involved, it really results in better outcomes for the children and the parents. That's so well said, because when there's a lack of understanding, then people start to think, well, it should feel like this or this is abnormal when really it does begin with separation.

11:29Adoption does begin with separation and trauma and facing that truth head on will be more helpful for you as an adoptive parent and for the child as they grow up. Exactly, exactly. And we we. You know, we couldn't eat Mexican food every night, so we tried to kind of, you know, incorporate some of our traditions, but respecting hers, we kept in touch. We were still in touch with the one of the caregivers at the orphanage and the director of the orphanage.

12:04My daughter did a study abroad in her. She's 28 now, so she's yeah, she's 28 now. So. You know, she did a study abroad in college in Mexico. And so just reclaiming her language, staying in touch and all that was part of it that we tried to support as best we could. That is amazing. I think with knowing that it couldn't be a traditional open adoption, like she couldn't have contact with biological family necessarily,

12:38but contact with the people who helped raise her for those first six years is still openness. That's still that's part of who she is. So that that's incredible that she was able to experience that and that you supported her in that. We went to visit my older daughter, did a summer. Actually, it worked out that through her college experience, she worked a summer at the orphanage where my younger daughter was raised.

13:10And so, so we we we went back to Mexico and the older daughters, our biological child, her Spanish was better than our younger daughter's Spanish. So that was just such an experience. And I think just, you know, awaken this passion. And she came back to the to the U.S. with a with a determination to reclaim her language and master it.

13:44And and and has done so beautifully and works in the Hispanic community here in our hometown. That's so great. What was that like for your older daughter? How old was she when your younger daughter came to live with you? They were seven and eight. Oh, so close. Okay. So what what was that like? Were there intentional things that you did to try and like foster that relationship and that closeness or did they hit it right off?

14:18What was that process like for you? Well, let's just say they did not hit it right off. They were and they're still, you know, not close. They turned out to be completely different personalities, which was somewhat understandable. The older one was. I mean, it was just so interesting, you know, and a reader. She was a musician. She was an athlete. She was and then our younger daughter.

14:48I mean, learning English, you're just not going to be that was an uncomfortable space for her for years. And it was just they ended up going to different high schools, which was a good thing. But initially, we lived in a small town and they were two years apart in school. So we kind of kept the younger daughter back a little bit because she needed to catch up and some things. But it was it was it was kind of a struggle, you know, but but family won out.

15:21It's not like they hated each other. It was just a lot of tension and a lot of, you know, girl arguments and things. But yes, it's huge transition for both daughters and for you. So she was the older one was an only child for eight years. And then all of a sudden everything was about her. And that's our whole world was her. So then when the younger daughter just she broke down the old the older daughter broke down one night and said she's getting all the attention.

15:53And it just again, these things just don't you like maybe too late. I thought, oh, of course. So then I tried to carve out time with each individually. You know, making cookies or shopping or doing things with together and separately. And that's that's been ongoing. So we still do things. We still do things that way. So that's great. That is great. When did you was there a moment when you realized that there was something that you didn't understand or something you needed to learn more of about your daughter's adoption?

16:28Because you described feeling unprepared for it. Was there a moment or an experience that you can paint for us? It was it was reading that book. It was it was the Primal Wound book when you know, I started to keep a little bit a journal about some of the behaviors and activities and what I was seeing. Of course, we did see a few therapists individually and as a family. And it wasn't until I read that book that I was thinking, well, this was all part of.

17:04You know, the trauma, but once I could, once I identified it, it was so much it seemed like it was so much easier to deal with because I understood it. And accepted it. I was always I was fighting against it. Why? Why are you doing this? What's why? What's happening? And understanding really facilitated a calmer house. If you fucking even put it that way. So so that that just helped to help the whole process.

17:37When you say you would have moments where you're thinking, why are you doing this? Do you mind describing some of the behaviors that you saw or overall? Was it was it like tantrums? Was it communication challenges? If it's too personal, we don't have to go there. But if you don't mind painting like a broad picture of what some of that behavior looks like. Well, you know, it was I'll say one recurring theme was honesty.

18:09Just being honest about and as she got older, being honest about where she was, what she was doing, who she was with. And those patterns just kept repeating itself over and over again. We were trying to figure out, you know, why won't you be honest with us and say what you're thinking, feeling, doing. And once we sort of again, we were seeing a therapist and who helped us, you know, dig a little deeper and and be honest with each other.

18:50And so that was really that that's really the behavior that that kind of in my memory resonates the most because we were always trying to get to the bottom of things. And I say this in my memoir. It was the therapist that told us to stop asking a million questions. Why did you do that? Why did you do that? And just, you know, observe the behaviors that you see in front of you and try and deal with it. But let's not have 50 questions or a quiz show or a or an inquisition.

19:24And then that doesn't help our family situation. So we sort of shifted gears a little bit with her suggestions and it helped move us further along as a family. I like that approach of seeing things more like a scientist of what you just described. Writing things down and you're keeping a journal of what some of the behaviors and activities were that if you approach it with a little bit more observant and scientific mindset,

19:56then you might not merge with those intense emotions of wanting to force behavior into a certain way and instead see it happen and deal with that moment instead of tie a bunch of things together. And all the while again back to the myth of adoption all the while, you know, we were upset or something or or talk to either friends or relatives. They would say, oh, doesn't she realize how lucky she is, you know, to be with you?

20:26How you're a wonderful family. How lucky she is. And it's so easy to buy into that. No, no, I hate that that mindset because again, it was dawning on me ever so slowly. All that she had lost. So it was really all that kind of coming together gradually that that again helped us move forward. But, you know, in our we did maintain our standards. I mean, she she had to I mean, obviously go to school.

20:59We were preparing her to go to college. And and so we did have some firm kind of guide rails along the way that we weren't willing to give up. So a combination of everything it did sort of work out. And her was she learning English during that year where she was before she came to live with you or no. So when she came to live with you, she was nothing. When she when you adopted her, her there was still communication challenges.

21:31Yes. How long did that take to? Well, it happened very quickly. Really within a few months, she knew, of course, what we were saying. And she said things back. But it was really the ability to. What would I would say succeed in school with reading and writing again, we lived in a small town and the at the time, I don't know what they're called now. I think it's called something different, but ESL, the ESL teacher was someone for some reason that she clicked with totally.

22:08They they really got along famously. She loved working with her. She worked with her two hours a day. Wow. That really, really helped. And and she just really and you know what? It wasn't me, which was another good thing. Like parents can't do everything and just hover over everything. So it was we loved that she had this great connection with this with this woman. And she really was a lifesaver and helped her.

22:39Helped her succeed in second grade, third grade. It was so important. So it was we're fortunate. We have this belief that the Open Adoption Project that as an adoptive parent, we you have to accept that you are not enough on your own. And that when you're surrounded by people who can support your child in ways that you might not be able to, then it's better for you and it's better for the child. So that's so fortunate that she clicked with that ESL teacher because that's not something that you would be able to provide on your own.

23:14Whereas with your biological daughter, there was probably more independence there of you can speak my language and we can connect in a certain way. So how did that what did how is parenting different between your your first daughter and your second daughter? Because just mostly because of the communication challenges, like how did how did your parenting style change or what things did you do differently just to help her understand that you love her, even though she might not understand it?

23:46It was interesting because our older daughter was in a gifted program. She was, as I said, kind of a voracious reader and had wonderful comprehension and reading. And I honestly I mean, I'll just be honest. I did not help my older daughter with homework ever once in my life. The younger daughter, of course, needed help with with every single assignment.

24:17We were from the time she got home, we would check it and and review. Oh, I don't know the days of the week and the months and the things that you would take for granted that that kids would know. She just she just had to learn everything. So it was a long, long process. And thank goodness she did have that support and reinforcement at school. And so there were difficulties there.

24:47The as a matter of fact, this latest book, my my third children's book is called Carla the Conqueror. And because I'm not writing about her because she would kill me if I wrote any more about my daughter. So it's about building the confidence to read aloud when English is not your first language. So she was asked to do something read aloud and with her sort of tentative English skills, she was nervous.

25:19And again, I did not appreciate this at the time. She was nervous as could be. So when it came her turn and this is I repeat the the sequence of events in my book, she crawled underneath her teacher's desk and she could not face her classmates. And so in the in the book, she goes back to her ESL teacher and with practice gets to a point where she could read this story aloud.

25:53So that's that's the children's book. And it was interesting. All these years later, I was talking to my daughter. I said, Oh, do you remember when you crawled underneath the desk in Mrs. I forget the name of the teacher's name. Mrs. Mrs. Smith's classroom. And my daughter said, Yes, do you know, I got detention for that? I couldn't believe it. Wow. And I thought, how weird is that? I was really angry. I thought here she is scared.

26:23And she said, Well, I was fresh to the teacher. I said, I don't care how fresh you were. I was really surprised if that was the reaction. But I didn't even know it at the time. Either she didn't tell me or I can't. I don't think I forgot, but I would have remembered that. But she got detention for that. And again, the books are meant to open up the conversation, create a little space for these these children that are dealing with issues that we may have not thought about.

26:53So anyway, that was the that was one of the inspiring stories for my children's book. That's a vivid image, too. And the teachers response may be not coming from a trauma informed education or background. So hopefully that is not happening anymore. But more right now. And just so you know, and so our listeners know, I ask these questions about the differences in your experience between your biological daughter and your adoptive daughter, not because there is a difference in the relationship or how much an adoptive parent loves each of their children or parent loves each of their children.

27:34But I think it's important to talk about because a lot of people might have biological children and are nervous about adoption or foster care or or anything like that, because they're concerned about what that will look like on the other side or if they'll get along. And so I appreciate you talking about it just to give people an idea of the different approaches that you can take and that you can be one cohesive family if you're flexible enough to respond to their different needs.

28:04Yes, yes. And we've we've traveled together. I mean, it's not always smooth sailing, obviously, but we traveled together. The girls are do have things in common. Obviously, my older daughter was just married and my younger daughter was in the wedding. I mean, it was just it was it always makes me cry. So it's it's been amazing. Yeah, such a journey. Was there a breakthrough moment that you had with your daughter's healing or in her understanding of her identity?

28:39Was there a specific instance that you can remember of feeling that connection and feeling like things can get better from here? Or was it more of a slower, gradual process to feeling that connection? Well, I have to say, when we went to Mexico and because of my older daughter working at the orphanage, there was just sort of it was unbelievable feeling.

29:09Because it was all those worlds coming together and my younger and older daughter seeing it at the same time, kind of appreciating where they both were and just connecting with the past and still but ready to kind of affirm where we are as a family. And she she was so ready to do that at that point.

29:39It was it was it was obvious it was so I just in fact, just last month, we just traveled back to Mexico again, just the two of us and connected with some students that she met during study abroad. And she's really just been able to be in both worlds and just do some tremendous things. So that's amazing.

30:09That really is. And just the way that you have helped her take care of that part of herself, the part that that you didn't know those first six years that you knew so little about, and she only probably remember so much of it. So for you, how do you balance the need to discuss the challenges of adoption, but still celebrate your own family's journey? Because I think we don't want to perpetuate the adoption myth that everything is great and it's all roses, but you also don't want to focus too much on the negative because a lot of people in the adoption community feel like ambassadors in a way that it's important to share the good that can come from it, too.

30:52So how do you balance that or navigate those sometimes opposite experiences? Well, the because the impetus for writing the books is about the recognition of the trauma and loss. But within the books themselves, of course, the message of love and support comes through. So when people people to this day say, oh, she was so lucky to get you as a family or, you know, or oh, your books are so great adoption.

31:28It's it was it was so great that you did that. I said, OK, but, you know, remember, the reason I'm writing these books is because so I go back to my my premise. Adoption begins with separation, loss and trauma and is different. Every adoption is unique. So I try to stress those things so that people understand my theme or my message first before they're all, you know, gooey and giddy about what a great job I did as a parent.

31:58No, no, not not really. But let's remember, you know, what we what we had to deal with here. And and, you know, the more time that goes by, the more credit that I give to my daughter for her resilience, which she is very, you know, matter of fact, and just, you know, strong mentally to to just come through this the way she has. And she works in a stressful environment and in the nonprofit world now and and is.

32:33But even after all these years, she is very. She's open about her adoption roots, but careful to share it in a way that's, you know, thoughtful and recognizes that the difficulty and the victories that she's had. Is that something that she's developed over time on her own or? Yeah, OK. Yeah, that's because in the beginning.

33:04I think, you know, years years ago, she was telling me about even going out with friends and she had this one friend, you know, they'll be out somewhere in this one friend said, oh, you know, she's adopted. And and, you know, my daughter knew enough to say, you know, that's my story to tell. That's not for you to sit there and tell our whole group of friends. So she she has this she has a great sense of self. And I think she she knows her her own mind and and I really applaud that.

33:36So I learned from her. And so, again, when people are just, oh, it's so wonderful. I really try and get back to my message because that's again, this conversation that I had with another adoptee was so profound. She said, you know, your your books are really saving lives because the adoptees have to know that this is part of the process. My second book is called How I Wonder Where You Are.

34:07And it's the adopted. It's a series. So it's the same the same girl thinking about on her birthday. You know, does she think she thinks about her birth mother and where she came from? She doesn't look like her family because, you know, people people would say to us in the line at Disney World or at the restaurant. She doesn't look like you. People don't hold back. You know, there's always the and you have to be able to handle that.

34:37And I I want the message for the adopted children to be. It's OK. If you're you're you're going to you're different from your family. And it's OK to ask those questions and feel different. But but celebrate your time as a family. The love is there. The love is there. So it's it's it's a mix. It's never just there are so many adoption books that it's you know, birds and sunshine and flowers. And I'm so glad we found you. And that's great. But my message, I think, stands apart in that we've got to recognize the the trauma and the loss and the grief that's there.

35:16And appreciate the love that that is given. How do you respond to people or how that are standing in line and they see that she looks different from you? What did you have a go to phrase or question to to to handle those two invasive types of questions? You know, it's funny when I look back on most of the response has been kind of stunned silence. I think that's pretty normal because it's so shocking that someone could say something like that, even if they're not ill intentioned.

35:59It's still shocking, even if you're anticipating it or you're aware of it. I just I think one time I just said, well, she's my daughter. So or something. But it was funny. Even in Mexico, it was another kind of funny, funny, weird moment when I when I was mentioning to you earlier that the older daughter Spanish was better. But of course, my younger daughter looks Hispanic. The waitress was totally confused, and she I could still see her. She pointed her pen at my younger daughter said in Spanish, you don't speak Spanish.

36:35What's with this wife? And my older daughter's accent is kind of. She was wondering what is going on here. So that was interesting. Yeah. People don't know their brain isn't computing what's in front of them sometimes because it's not common. Yeah. Is there a question or a phrase that you want to replace? She's so lucky with that's a very I think it's a very common thing that parents say to adoptive parents.

37:10Oh, she's so lucky that she has you. How fortunate is there something else that people could say instead or a way to handle that? Because it's it is an involved conversation and saying, well, actually not lucky, but here's here's five minutes on trauma and separation. So how do you think people should better have those conversations? Well, here's here's where I've gone previously. I said, well, I'd say things something like, well, that's one way to see it.

37:42However, when when you think about all that, that she's lost, it really it really made me and I put it back to me, really made me stop and think, you know, maybe at one time, you know, I thought that, too. But when I think about her food and her culture and the beautiful women, you know, at the orphanage and it was really. You know, I just honestly and lately I've been saying I'm so lucky because I mean, we've had this deepened relationship recently.

38:17I just mentioned we traveled to Mexico together. And, you know, when your children are older, you're a lot younger than I am. When your children are older and you start to do things like go out to dinner and do go to shows or events or lectures and hear some thought provoking things, you have these discussions that I just think, well, how how lucky am I that I just have this amazing little kid that is that loves me.

38:48And and like and sometimes I think she'll forget herself. And this is really don't laugh. She'll call me mommy. And she'll I mean, older kids don't do that, but sometimes she'll forget and she'll do that. And I won't say anything, but I'll think how lucky am I? This is so wonderful. So anyway, it's a mix. I hope that that was a long answer. But yeah, I like that. It's a very kind and compassionate response of of just thinking, well, I I feel lucky.

39:24And maybe if there's an opportunity later to say, well, when you consider everything she's lost, it's a there's a little more going on. But I do feel so lucky. That's such a kind response. Right. But there's you know, lately, I've noticed maybe that's just the way we've evolved as a country online. There's a lot of there's a lot of hate directed at adoptive parents. And what we know what we stand for, what we've done, or what we've said.

39:55And I just that's why I'm hoping, you know, my books move the conversation so that children and parents can can talk about these things. And it's more out in the open. That's my that's my passion. That's my mission. Yeah, let's talk more about that. So you have your memoir, Love at the Border and Adoption Adventure. And then you also self-published these children's books like Carla the Conqueror. And what was the second one that you mentioned? The second one was How I Wonder Where You Are.

40:27Beautiful title. Yes. And then the first one was Many People to Love, which was really a reflection on just how this whole crazy family comes together. I want to know more about why you're choosing children's books as the as the format because I think it's wonderful because there you can read them with your child. The child learns the parent learns. You can also gift them to people because you family members nieces and nephews that might not understand.

41:01But it's an approachable way to talk more about complicated topics. So maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but was that kind of the reason? No question. Yes, totally. But my one phrase that I'd like to put in there is the earlier the better. That's why I was thinking children's books because children can even look at the pictures. And one of the things that I've read that was very impactful was that the parents should begin to talk about adoption if they've adopted a baby,

41:39for instance, begin to talk about adoption even before the concept of adoption is even understood. Just have that the story kids want to hear their story over and over and over again. And, you know, because our daughter was seven, it was a whole different kind of kind of ballgame. And I had a lot of catching up to do that. I did. I was a little late to that party. So I was thinking with children's books, if these concepts are initiated by the adoptive parents because the kids are thinking them.

42:19So their concepts are initiated by the parents. It will be accepted and understanding. And just you're after what's going to make the family thrive together. And that's my goal. I love that. I think that the kids don't have words for it, but they're thinking it. And you're right that the grownups, the adults, the parents, the whoever is in their life needs to have the language for it. So before they're even talking or before, like you said, the word adoption even comes up.

42:53If the if the adults have already been telling this story and they're comfortable with it, they're familiar with it. They know how to talk about the hard realities, but also help the child feel safe and loved and supported. The more practice, the better. I love that. Yes, that's the that's the goal. That's the goal anyway. So it's been so there are three books. I'm actually now thinking of switching genres and working on a story about a family that's maybe a little bit older along the path and work adoption in there.

43:32So it's the story continues. That's wonderful. Where can our listeners find your books or find you to connect with you? Well, there's a lot of information on my website and that's a M DDO dot com a M D I D I O dot com. And I've got some background information on there about the about us as a family, some pictures, some recipes that were meaningful, very important things like Mexican lasagna that we sort of like me.

44:06I mean, there's lots of recipes out there. We kind of made our own, but the books are for sale in Amazon on Amazon and in Barnes and Noble. Wonderful. But the links are in the website, too. Okay, great. Is there anything else that you want to share that we haven't covered yet about your story about your books or anything else? No, I just think that the best thing adopted parents can do is is I always say three things network.

44:38Do your research network with parents that are in similar situations. And then as I said, my books are part of this solution there is terms of being honest and open and communicating as much as possible as early as possible. Wonderful. Well, Anna Maria, thank you so much. It has been a pleasure to talk with you and learn more about your story and about your books. And we will include this information on on our social media so people can connect with you.

45:08And yeah, just want to say thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I love the conversation. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project. We hope you found this content helpful and enjoyable. If so, we would love for you to share it with a friend or an acquaintance that it might help. We'd also love to connect with you on social media or on Instagram at open adoption project.

45:42Or you can look us up on our website open adoption project dot org. Thanks so much for being here with us and learning with us.

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