Racial Identity Struggles with Amanda Justice

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. This is episode 63. We're the Nelsons. I'm Shaun and in this episode my wife Lanette does an interview with Amanda Justice. Please excuse both of our voices. We've been a little bit sick. Luckily we're both feeling a lot better but we don't sound quite right yet so thanks for your patience with our sick voices and we hope that you stay healthy this season. Amanda is a transracial adoptee who is an advocate, educator, and

0:33an empower for those who are in a similar situation as her. You can learn a lot more about Amanda on her Instagram which is at blackgirlwhitefamily.com. She also has a website with the same URL so it's blackgirlwhitefamily.com. We'll put a link to both of those in the show notes to this episode. In this episode Lanette and Amanda talk about what it's like to be a transracial adoptee and Amanda shares a lot of really good advice for perspective adoptive parents, those

1:07who might be considering adopting a child that is a different race than them, and some of the things that they might need to consider. We've been looking forward to connect with Amanda for quite some time and we're really happy that we can share this episode with you now. We hope you enjoy this conversation with Amanda Justice. Well we are here on the podcast with Amanda Justice. Amanda thank you so much for joining us today. No problem. To start off can we have you share a bit about who you are, where you're from, and what some of the things you are passionate

1:40about are? Yeah so I am originally from New York, born and raised. I am now living in Maryland with my family, with my daughter, my husband. As far as passionate, I'm a passionate person in general so when I find something that I'm into that's my passion. And I feel like over the years it's been hard for me to kind of narrow it down to one thing because I just love doing so many different things and everything that I do I feel I'm passionate about. So one of them, I love

2:12traveling and I love talking, I love helping other people. I really like, I would say like I, my dad used to say all the time, he's like you know you talk so much and I was just like well I might as well put it to use you know so advocating for other adoptees and you know speaking up for people who are less likely or cannot speak up for themselves is something that I'm very passionate about. Well we are so happy to have you here. That's how we found you because you speak up so much about you're passionate about in the adoption community. I'm so

2:42grateful for that so thank you for what you're doing. All right so can you share some of your adoption story, whatever you'd like to share. Would just love to hear a bit more about you and how you're connected to the adoption community. Yeah sure so I am an adult transracial adoptee. I was born into an Italian Irish-American home at three days old. Closed adoption, didn't know, I mean I would say very little information about my birth mother. It was very little. Not sure if that was done on purpose or it was more like my mom was going to give

3:14it to me as I asked which I could understand why. Grew up 45 minutes outside of the city. My parents adopted a boy from New Mexico about a year after they adopted me. We're multicultural family, love to travel. My parents were teachers so we did and I think that's where my my love for traveling came into play because we were always somewhere. Like we were never home whether it was a family member's house or you know another state. We were always traveling so

3:47that gave us a lot of time to be together and to have family time. That was pretty much growing up. I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood. Went to a diverse school. The school was pretty much diverse but I still struggled a lot with trying to figure out who I was you know as a woman, a black woman, where I fit in. So that was a real struggle. It was a real challenge which thankfully I have managed to overcome you know today but it was difficult and in high school I was really really really struggling and

4:19I remember somebody said what do you want to what do you want to go to college for and I said college like I knew I wanted to go but it's so weird how this one question triggered this thought in my head and I said well how am I supposed to even know what I want to do if I don't even know who I am and I was like well what do you mean you don't know who you are? I said I don't know who I am I don't know where I come from. Like how am I supposed to continue on with life? It's the end. It's high school and you know for all this time it was like yeah I go to you know fifth grade and sixth grade. I'm in sports. I'm in this. I'm in

4:52so many different activities. Now I'm about to graduate. What am I gonna do with my life? Now the focus you know I mean from the sports and all this stuff now what do I do? So my mother after tons of talks and you know all this other stuff you know I asked her if we could search for my birth mother and like I said it was pushback at first but she explained to me why and she just didn't know what her response was gonna be and how I would be able to handle it whatever the outcome was. So after about I guess a good three

5:26week long you know kind of conversation on and off she said okay like we'll do it. She got a PO box in a town that was like next to ours and she started to write letters to people because she knew my mom's first name and last name. Back in the day they used to have on the talk shows remember you have like find your long-lost family member and they would have the guy on the talk show and you would call this number. It was something like that where they gave us a list of names but my mother's my birth mother's name was so popular there were pages and

5:57pages and pages. So we just started to start in the tri-state area around where I was born. So we started with New York and then worked out our way out and then probably I'm gonna say no more than a month later she reached out and it was her. So I started you know it's a formal relationship with her I found out that I actually had an older sister who was three and a half years older than me but my mom actually ended up keeping her and raising her. So at first I was excited to

6:28have a sister but then after I was like but wait a second what was so great about her you know and what was so wrong with me. So then that started to kind of ponder in my head. Relationship was good at first or I thought it was I think I was so overwhelmed by the the you know reunion that I didn't realize what was actually happening and it started to become very toxic unhealthy. It was like that way for probably about 23 years. 23 years and just probably up until about

7:012018 no I'm gonna say 2019 that's when we really kind of just I couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't do it anymore. So it's been about three years and the interesting thing was is I kind of moved out here to be closer to them so we could kind of continue to build our relationship and as soon as I got out here it's you know and as adoptees you you have that hope you know you want that little bit of hope where it's like okay maybe this time it'll be better and I and I compared it to you know an abusive relationship right Stockholm

7:35syndrome something like that where it's just like you know that they're doing you wrong you know that you know this is not right but maybe this time it'll be different. I understand because she said she loves me so she wouldn't do this to hurt me maybe it is me maybe I just need to stop being so sensitive and this is what happened and this is what happened and yeah 23 years seems like a long time but I had a lot of other stuff going on you know I became a mother I was going to college I was you know doing all this stuff so 23 years could go by like that

8:05you know so um so yeah so I mean it was it was a long time you know two decades but you know eventually I just said you know what I have to do what's best for me so um stopped talking to them started seeing a therapist who specialized in racial identity transracial adoption she changed my life the therapist just as one person was like you know this is what's going on your feelings are valid that changed my whole life that led into me creating a YouTube channel where I

8:37started to talk about my experiences and people started to email me and said oh my gosh me too this is what happened I was like there's no way now I knew that maybe somebody could relate to it but I never actually thought it would take me to where it has taken me the YouTube channel you know started doing that and then I said you know what let me create an Instagram next thing you know I found the adoption community wait a second this person says that they're adopted from you know in a white family I was like this is so weird it was it

9:07was surreal because now I'm looking at people who are like me who I thought that I was this this you know stranger odd creature who you know I was the only one who was placed into this white family and felt like this everybody around me you know had a great life and you know was able to confidently identify with their own race and you know feel strong and confident about their family and their background and know where they came from you know they resemble each other you look just like your mom you look just like your dad you

9:40know and I'm now I'm meeting all these different individuals from all different backgrounds that could really understand how I feel so um it was overwhelming it was very overwhelming but then I said you know what I need to I need to help the younger generation because they don't have they shouldn't have to go through what I went through these last 30 something years just for me to feel secure in my own body so that's why I started doing consulting I started doing

10:10education I started speaking up and just connecting with other adoptees and you know doing stuff like this podcast and really just letting people know like you know there's more to it you know when you're taking a child home you know when you're adopting a child or when you choose to go this route this is not fun and games it's not like oh my gosh we get to take a baby home and this is it there's work there's work and if you're not up for it or you're not gonna do it then don't do it you know um you know and in my own my trainings and all my

10:41stuff I'm very transparent and very open with the parents and you know I will tell them like I don't think this is for you I don't think this is for you and then you have parents who are like hitting everything like they understand where it's like you know they know you know so that's pretty much you know that's the short version of you know what I mean the last one gonna say you know 30 something years you know up until present day Wow so can you talk

11:12more about your YouTube channel you're consulting all of these different things that you're doing to help so yeah so YouTube um that has been there's video up there but I have not created more videos because I was so engaged with the Instagram portion of it I just I'm like if I'm gonna do something I'm gonna do it and I get distracted so I can't do too many things at once so um you know I still have my YouTube channel up there it's something that I keep it up there because I want to be able to continue it in the future but you know stuff just keeps happening why did my um boyfriend at the time have to propose and then we

11:44had to plan a wedding and then you know now we're having a baby you know I think so all these things keep happening that you know are great things but you know it's kind of like I have told myself that I am going to put my mental health first I'm gonna put my family first I'm gonna do certain things that make me happy and then that's gonna come so which which is hard to do because I was used to be the opposite used to get overwhelmed you know all that stuff and then nothing would get done so um so yeah so I did that Instagram it was more

12:16like just people reaching out to me really and um you know sharing my story and then I said you know what I said if I could really talk to these parents and really educate them and tell them and explain to them what I personally went through it could try to change their perspective and they could learn through my perspective so that's really where the consulting comes in fantastic do you have a website sure yep it's um www.blackgirlwhitefamily.com that's

12:51where that's basically all my stuff my Instagram black girl white family dot com same with my email so you know same that's fantastic I'm also another really quick follow-up question do you have advice for finding a really good therapist when as a transracial adoptee you were talking about life-changing and I know a lot of people struggle with finding the right therapist do you have advice for finding a good therapist as a transracial adoptee don't settle don't settle I mean you have to really it has to be it's a

13:26relationship and regardless if you're you know paying them out of pocket or using an insurance card it's still a relationship and you have to be comfortable you know in order to share and I'll be honest there are things with her that I that I didn't share that I'm still not ready that are I still wasn't ready to honestly share with anybody but when I looked for a therapist I made sure it was a woman of color somebody who was very close you know to me and

13:58also someone who had experienced in adoption racial identity and also think it was relationships and now that I think about it it was odd but you know what I realized I realized that my relationships with people could have been a lot better and I had a lot of failed relationships and not you know you know intimate I mean with even you know just girlfriends just you know having friends because of my lack of trust with people and one of the things

14:36is that if my if somebody who gave me life could treat me like that and do me like that what makes you any different and that just always had in the back of my mind which it's okay to be cautious it's okay to you know be aware but that's not healthy to think like that because you're always on edge you're always like what are you going to do I'm just waiting for you to do something and it caused me to back away from people so if I felt like you were deceiving me in any type of way if you were just anything that's it Amanda's gonna shut

15:08down and I'm going you know I mean that's it so I really need to get had to get over that and learn how to actually have a relationship to verbalize to people what I wanted you know and also reciprocate that you know just to not you know so it's not just one way so so I feel like that helps a lot so you really need to kind of think about you know what do you want to achieve I wanted to have healthy relationships so relationships I wanted to feel more

15:39confident who I was racial identity I want to understand that this whole adoption thing was not my fault adoption trauma so those are the key things that I searched for which it could be different for everybody but those were the things that I really wanted to improve about myself so I think that you know think about things that it is that you want to improve but make sure that they have those key elements where it's adoption or where it's racial identity because this could be tied in to whatever it is that you're trying to achieve and that's where you know people that don't specialize in those things

16:14where it could be you know they could be misled and things you know they're not addressing underlying issues that you're sitting there wasting your time I think that's really great advice thank you so much welcome all right so how do you think your experiences as an adopter you have led you to where you are today um I always say that could be me so foster care when I hear about kids of foster

16:46care when I hear about people kids getting taken away from their parents or something like that it makes me look at things so differently and I mean in a way I feel blessed that that wasn't me in that situation but I'm also and I guess there's a name for it and I guess it's kind of like survivor's guilt you know what I mean where you kind of feel guilty so it's changed me because I've become a better mother I become I feel like it shaped me into a better woman just knowing that I don't want to be like

17:17that I don't want to be that person I don't want to be that parent you know if I I'm gonna do whatever I have to do to make sure that my child is with me that she has is safe and secure so um you know just being an adoptee has changed me at first I didn't think I was ever gonna have kids you know because I was afraid that I didn't want I didn't want to damage my children I didn't want to you know be that generational cycle of you know trauma and stuff like that and

17:49don't get me wrong it took a long time for me to get out of some things and still there's still work that I need to do but I'm able to I'm more aware of what I'm doing where I'm like okay Amanda this is not good this is something that you have to you know you know this is wrong you know and we have to step it back because there's some stuff that we that genetically that I have that is just a part of me and it scares me that I don't want to be like that my you know

18:20and not to talk about my mother the narcissist you know my biological she's a narcissist so I don't I try so hard to not be that and it's it's it's hard at times you talked about how when you talk to adoptive parents or prospective adoptive parents times you can I get this vibe and you're just like you know you guys really shouldn't do this like this isn't a good bit what do you think some of the key things that you would look for or recommend to potential adoptive parents to know and understand about transracial adoption before doing

18:55it what what would some of those things be so one of the things is is that if I'm meeting with somebody and they actually have no clue they're just like you know we want to adopt we have no way we we don't care what race it is you know we you know there's certain things that people say and I understand that it's not you know it shouldn't be scripted right it shouldn't be scripted I'm not looking for you to say certain things but it tells me a lot about the type of person or that maybe the potential what what what could be an issue in the

19:29future so when I talk to them I ask about lifestyle this is something where I've learned over the last couple years that is a key indicator on how you guys are willing or how well you would do one of the things is where do you live now now if they want to adopt a black child but they live in the middle of nowhere around white people what's the reason why don't you live in a more diverse area because I'm gonna be honest me even being a black black woman and having a

20:03black child and a black husband I want to be in diversity I do so what is it that doesn't you know so it's just certain things like that where we talk about lifestyle how's your family how does your family get along you know how does your family feel about this and these certain questions will help to see whether or not this might be a good fit and to be honest it's all about you know in here and like I said it's trial and error at first when I first started doing this it was completely different now I could really gauge and really kind

20:35of tell where I'm just like oh yeah you guys like you guys are definitely on the right page I always always always recommend education don't just do education just so you could pass your home study just so you can hand in your certificates and you could do this don't do that when you what once you have this child in your home and even before you should still be educating YouTube Instagram whatever it is there's free education there's paid education there's so many different resources out here where there's no excuse where you

21:06should not you know say oh I didn't know or oh this wasn't available no it's not and if you feel like you want to adopt a child of color but you don't have any experience you've never been around a black person you never talked to one you don't have any that's something to me it's weird it like I'm hiding it's it's weird to me you know because that's you're just opening the doors for more racisms for hurt and that poor child they're not going to be able to thrive

21:36in an environment like that you know it's just it's gonna be very difficult yeah yeah and I loved what you said about education and the importance for ongoing education it doesn't start as a pair always need to learning so yeah so looking at your own adoptive family what do you feel like they did well in regards to your adoption with helping you to feel more peace or

22:07acceptance they always stepped out of their comfort zone and they always had my hat no matter what those two things it wasn't enough but it was it did a lot because I always knew that no matter what if it was a child picking on me if it was something that I know I could go to my dad and my dad would handle it it didn't matter you know I knew that if I had a bad day or I had something you know something's going on my mom would would handle it and she would take care

22:39of it you know so no matter who it was even if it had to do with my own biological mother they always had my back it was like yeah I understand that this is you know your biological child but this is my daughter and you know this is not gonna happen you know and they always had my back and always made sure that I felt safe and secure and years ago they didn't have resources that they had today they just had to do what they did best you know I just do

23:10with whatever you know came naturally so based off of that I feel like they did a pretty good job you know even with the lack of education and you know I guess it's just exposure to certain things we I mean we did certain things that would expose me to my culture too here and there but one of the most things is that they just it was just they were so supportive in everything and so you said

23:40that they did help you connect to your culture and did you feel like they helped you have racial mirrors or do other things like that racial mirrors not really my mother had an African American woman as a best friend who she met by asking a woman if she could help her teach her how to do my hair so it was just a random person that she met in the supermarket and they ended up being friends for 35 years so that was really like the family that

24:10they did everything with us but they moved away when I was young like I feel like they met we met them when I was like four and then they moved away by the time I was like ten so for those six seven years or whatever it was like we did everything holidays and did all this stuff together and then all of a sudden they moved all the way to Tennessee so when they moved I was like no you know and I mean trying to keep up but we were so young and life is going on and trying to communicate you know we didn't travel like that yeah I mean back in the 90s I

24:44don't know you just didn't you did but it wasn't on planes a lot I mean our family did it you know a lot of it was road trips you know so I mean we didn't see each other that much unless they really came to New York but that was really pretty much what I had my pediatrician my mom said she tried to find one but the closest she could get was an Asian man so I mean she was like why is a minority okay mom but that was the closest there was no I had a black principal in high school I think there were some black teachers but the racial

25:17mirrors I saw were the other students that I interacted with and that I attended school with once I got into grade school that were around me so if you could go back in time and teach the social workers and your adoptive parents just one thing like what would that most important thing be that you wish you could go back just be open-minded be open-minded understand that people people do stuff there's there's there's two things people do stuff because they are nice and they don't know any better yeah and then people do stuff because

25:52they feel that they can and they can't get away they could just get away they just do things because they can and I feel like if you take time to learn and to get to know people and to get to know more about people than judging them that things would be a lot different it would be a lot different for me because things were different until they found out my parents were white so I was just another kid you know what I mean in the school next time once they found out that you know and I feel like the teachers weren't up to par they had no idea what

26:25you know it just wasn't popular I don't even remember having another trans racial adoptee in my school so you know cultural sensitivity training you know stuff like that needs to be taught not only to staff and teachers but I feel like it should be done in school just based off of the way society is today we need to do more interacting and learning about other cultures and things that are not so common not that I wanted to be a poster child I'd be like oh she's a

26:56transracial adoptee but one of the things I remember is my mom used to take me out of school to get my hair done and she used to take me to get my hair box braided and years ago we used to get something called micro braids and they would take 10 to 12 hours a day so I needed to be out of school and the next day when I would come back into school with a new hairstyle my teacher would basically point it out and she was like oh I knew what you were doing you're only out to get your hair done Amanda got her hair done you know oh look at

27:27that so it was like putting the spotlight on me when you know Sally Sue or whatever could have got a haircut and she would have came in and nobody would have said you know oh you look so pretty and then that's it so it's just certain things like that where you know the t-shirt kind of made me feel uncomfortable like I stood out so it's just certain things like that that you know teachers need to go through yeah and you know they need to learn they need to learn more about certain things like that because I feel like that was

27:58inappropriate and if I knew what to say when I was younger I would have said something to my mom but I knew it made me feel uncomfortable but I didn't know how to express it and verbally you know say okay this is not right yeah what advice would you give to other adoptees and to their families who are searching for birth family because I know you talked about your experience was hard your mother tried to help kind of brace you for that but probably didn't really know what to be doing so yeah what would your advice be so yeah so she she kind

28:30of we went through every possible outcome at the end of the day you could never be 100% prepared my advice for the adoptees is do the work on yourself first do whether it's you know healing or whatever you have to do do the work on yourself first because you need to be mentally mentally and emotionally strong as strong as can be and I'm gonna say that because I'm an emotional person so you really have to be prepared for any possible outcome not saying to prepare

29:03for the worst but just know that it's every reunion is not a good reunion mine started off like a dream come true it was something that I only dreamed about and it turned out ending in a nightmare so who knew that it was gonna end like that so that's what I have heard but you know adopt these make sure you just do the work on yourself you know have a great support system find somebody that you're comfortable with and make sure that you're doing it for you don't do it for the pressure because you see other people are you know reuniting or you know

29:36this that that there make sure you're doing it for you and that you know you you'll be able to pretty much kind of get through or kind of cope with whatever the decision is for adoptive parents if your child comes to you and they say that they you know they want to find their biological family be supportive be supportive do not tell them that they can't you know be open and honest with them like I guess my mom did and said you know these are the different outcomes this is what it could be but be honest with them be supportive because you

30:08don't want them to just turn their backs on you or you know or regret you know just you know I guess get mad at you because you weren't supportive and then next thing you know you know as soon as they get a chance to do it then they're gonna leave you you know whatever I mean I don't know maybe it's a little bit dramatic but you never know the support is better and then also for biological parents they need to know that you know we're both been through trauma you know biological parents birth parents and adoptees if your birth child wants to

30:41connect with you let them connect answer some questions even if you know you're not planning on having a relationship they deserve answers and they deserve to have at least some bit of closure just allow them to do it even if it's from a distance just give it to them because nobody wants to live their life having all these questions unanswered just up in the air and trying to figure out what if or what did I do wrong you know let them know that it's not their fault because that could help them move forward in life you mentioned that

31:12growing up you had a really hard time with developing your racial identity and uncomfortable in your own skin and with who you are so what are some of your thoughts on how we can better support adoptees and help them as they're working on sorting through these challenges I don't think there's much and this is this is gonna it's gonna sound weird when I answer it I don't think there's much that like individuals can do it's more of society as a whole

31:45because we're especially as a black woman it's kind of already decided on how I should be or what I am or what I'm capable of or how I should act you know all these different things so when you grow up in a white family you're these things are not made aware you know you don't know about these things you're not seeing your aunt your mother you know hearing these talks go on in your household you're thinking everything is fine because I'm hearing conversations

32:18that white women have so when it comes to the real world when I'm stepping outside there and I'm thinking everything is great and this is what I'm gonna do and it's kind of like a brick wall you're like whoa wait this isn't so easy I actually have to prove myself I actually have to work and I actually have to you know do certain things and do you know more things in order for me to at least get in the front door you know I may not even feel accepted but at least just get into the door and have a seat so these things were very hard for

32:51me to deal with because I was part of that colorblind how home everybody looked at me like I was the same society didn't look at me like that when I was you know outside so it was very different it was very difficult to kind of say you know have a reality check on wait a second I can't do this and a lot of times what I talk about is the white umbrella privilege that I had growing up I grew up I know what it's like I've seen white privilege with my own eyes it

33:22exists and then I also know how it is not having it and being out here by myself but I also experienced it in two different ways so it's kind of like you know people tell me like listen like girl you don't have to tell me because I already know I've seen it with my own eyes I've experienced certain things you know so um I mean it's it's really like you know do your education it's it's stigmas it's stereotypes it's you know get to know someone before you judge

33:56them get to know someone as a person as an individual before you judge them so it's just about people educating themselves it really is educating yourself watch a movie watch a show talk to somebody you know it is really that's what it is immerse yourself in a diverse community and and see exactly what the with the with the black community is talking about what their issues are what they're discussing what what they're into whatever it is but it really people need to get more connected with each other and intertwined that's beautiful

34:30wow yeah that's so heavy and important how do you make people educate themselves I wish I knew but that's great advice thank you and I feel like people learn by accident or by purpose you know what I mean if you think about it most of the time a lot of things are by accident because you do stuff and then you're like oh that didn't work out okay you know that's how I learned I learned by making mistakes my mom could tell me so over and over again until I actually

35:00did it and then failed and I was like yeah she was right then that's different you know so I mean it really everybody learns a different way you know some people you just got to shove it in their face and then you know but you have to be willing you know you really have to be willing to do it so if somebody says oh well you have to go to school to become a dentist but I don't want to be a dentist how invested am I gonna be in those studies oh well okay we want you to be a physical therapist oh now you're talking I like the sound of that because you're just gonna be more invested so it depends people some

35:32people just don't want to they don't want to face reality and realize that there's problems going on in this world they're still exists they rather just make makes you know if it's not talked about it doesn't exist it never happened and that's how a lot of people live their lives with blinders on yeah and your experience what would you say we can do as an adoption community to better support adoptees as they address trauma and all of these different struggles we've been talking about it's very important for adoptees to be heard

36:08and listened to a lot of the experts and the experts which I say not so much the adoptees the other experts where they're saying this is what needs to be done this is a lot of this information people are taking from adoptees experiences and taking you know this stuff and then putting a you know a title on it or putting something on it and then using it as a resource but a lot of this stuff is coming from adoptees and all of us have so many well I would say our our

36:42stories are so unique all our stories you're not you're gonna find similarities definitely but everyone's story is different and it's important to figure it's it's it to know that everything is just not great there are adoptees who have horrible horrible experiences in these families then you have some where I'm just like oh wow that was great you know so you really need to listen to adopt these because we are the ones who are in the middle of

37:16the triad we have the connection with adoptive parent we have the connection with the biological parent we are the one who gets torn in between and it's very difficult to try to play both sides some people it's you know it's it's difficult because I had to do that I had to be torn in between where yeah but you you haven't spent holidays with us we just met you and we want you to spend them my family my adopt family well where your family we've been here since day one what are you doing so you really needs to listen to

37:48adopt these and listen to their perspective the stories and everything that they've experienced so you understand where they're coming from we're not being dramatic we're not being you know we're just not screaming and yelling just because we just feel like getting attention these are real-life situations and things that people have gone through that some of them never get over ever people do not know their actual birthdays their actual where they

38:18came from I could have I mean I know where you know I was but I'm like could you imagine that you don't even know your date of birth that it was just actually a made-up number that was put on there you don't even know you could be five years old or younger who knows but um I'm just saying you know I mean that's a little far-fetched but you know it's still you don't know who you are you're looking at these documents are these real is this real is this fake what is this why is this information blacked out I don't understand why I

38:48can't even see names on my own birth certificate this is mine and I don't have a right to it this is what people need to hear because things need to be changed according to what we are struggling with and what would help us to move forward and to help us put our pieces together that sometimes people don't even have the resources to be able to you know to know where to start so not saying that adoptive parents and birth parents don't count but the the

39:20you know the the brunt of I guess all the trauma and the emotions stuff like that or we have to kind of suck it up and deal with it yeah I agree a hundred percent adoptees really are like at the center of they're being affected the most and they have the least voice in all situations and yeah yeah that's great to think about and talk about so what else would you like to talk about is there anything else that is on your mind today not really I just feel that

39:52it's it's something that I realized where I said before where it's it's emotional labor and even sometimes I will be very active on Instagram or very active on stuff and I have to remember not to lose myself so I need to step back and it might not be completely like you know but I may have to take that time out for myself and like I said yesterday I did like a self-care day you

40:23know stuff like that because I need to make sure that I'm right for my family for my husband for my daughter you know I'm about to start all over again my daughter is gonna be going to college next year so it's a lot going on where I need to make sure that I'm right and then everything else good you know it is okay because if my household is not good how am I supposed to help the next person get their stuff together so that's why I need to take the time and it's okay for you to step back you don't have to and I know there's a lot of

40:55adoptees content creators you know educators stuff like that make sure that you're taking the time out for yourself because I'm gonna tell you I will definitely get off that Instagram in a heartbeat to watch a movie with my husband or something like that or you know just take some time to you know go shopping or go for a drive go for walks it's been so beautiful out here last you know a month or so and I've been feeling better so I've been taking out that time my mental health is is amazing my emotional well-being is great I'm building better

41:26relationships with my daughter so I mean it's all worth it you know so make sure you're taking out the time for yourself you know the adoption community it'll be here it'll be here forever and you know use your voice keep advocating for what you believe in and that's pretty much it thank you so much Amanda I have loved talking to you well thank you well we just want to give a huge thanks to

41:57Amanda for taking some time to be with us to share it with all of us from her experience I personally walk away from this episode with a lot of takeaways one thing though that is just standing out to me is that we always need to keep educating ourselves when we think we've arrived when we think we've learned it all we're wrong we haven't and there's a lot that we can do that we can take an initiative to do to educate ourselves especially here in our community of adoption the more that we can listen to different voices the better we're going

42:31to understand different perspectives and experiences and the better we'll be able to help provide the best situation for adoptees both current and future adoptees so again thanks so much to Amanda and Lanette for this great conversation and we hope that you enjoyed this episode of the open adoption project

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