DaKota | Growing Up with an Open Adoption

0:00Welcome to the Open Adoption Project. We're the Nelsons. I'm Lynette and in this episode my husband Sean will be interviewing Dakota. Dakota is a 24 year old adoptee. He was born in and grew up in Utah and then moved to Boise, Idaho in high school. Then after that he went on a volunteer mission for his church and following that he went to university in Idaho. He currently runs a home health agency in Coeur d'Alene. Dakota also has his own adoption nonprofit called the Destiny Foundation focusing on giving out grants, making adoption plans, and

0:33offering support groups. We're really excited to learn from him and his experiences. Okay so we are now on the podcast with Dakota. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. Of course I'm so excited. Thanks for having me. We're happy to

1:04have you. Well let's just jump in and have you share your adoption story. Yeah I mean every adoption story has to start at the beginning right. That's where the decisions are made. That's where everything happens. One of my favorite things to tell people is that I am NOT adopted. I was adopted right. It's like everything about my life since shortly after my birth has been like not including my adoption. So I was placed for adoption as a as an infant. My

1:35birth mom was 15 years old when she had me. The relationship with my birth father was very strained. He did not want me to be placed for adoption. A lot of drama happened. Obviously I wasn't there so I'm not super aware of it but I because of my open adoption I hear I hear tidbits about each other's side and so all I know is that my parents were pretty much there when I was born. My parents were like pre-chosen by my birth mom. She was super impressed with their file. My parents had been trying to conceive and adopt for quite a while. My birth mom

2:08like fell in love with them. They became really good friends even before I was born and so it's just an ideal circumstance for both parties really. Because of the circumstances through which the agency that I was being adopted in was brought to pass the adoption was supposed to be closed with like letters available kind of a thing. So I have like letters and pictures and postcards when I was really young but somehow my parents reconnected with my

2:39birth mom when I was really young maybe like two or three. Obviously I don't remember a whole lot of this. I just have like some very like faint memories but what's really cool is I always knew I was adopted. Every day I had those books about kids being adopted. My mom read them to me like you were born in her tummy kind of thing but because I was so young when my parents reconnected with my birth mom it was like like I never questioned any of it. I always knew each other's purpose and place in our family because she is family but it's I

3:09don't know how to like no relationship can be compared to like a birth mom and an adopted child but if I were to it's like kind of like an aunt like an aunt she's like my aunt right like I love her I respect her but she's not my mom. So what's really crazy is I may be fibbing a little bit here because I was so young but her husband lost her job and they lived semi like semi close to my family so when I was really young her and her husband not my birth dad ended

3:40up like moving in with my family for several months so you know I just like I saw her all over the place like I woke up and hung out with my half-brother that was two or three at the time I think I was like four maybe five so he's just a little younger than me we were like best friends so obviously just like being aware of situations like it was just an ideal situation for me as I grew up she was always in my life it was really cool obviously I didn't have her around as much as I wanted to at some points and some points I had her around

4:10more than I wanted to right my family moved to literally the middle of nowhere when I was like 10 years old we went moved to Monticello Utah which is like five hours from where she lived but once a year my baseball team got to go to state in like the Utah Valley and it was just one of the coolest things ever I was so excited to play baseball baseball was like my first love it was like one of the most touching experiences looking over in the stands and like seeing my birth mom and her kids over there at that point it's not like your aunt right

4:40it's just wow that's so cool I love her so much and I actually talked to her all the time right now but this is just like bringing back so much emotion as I talk about it because like I didn't realize how much she loved her cared about me growing up I was just like she was there you know like everybody's everybody's there my answer my aunts and uncles like they care they're there it was so cool and and she struggled with some things throughout her life that have impacted her ability to be the mother that she wants to be both to me and to her her children so there were times that like I think I remember when I turned 14 I got

5:16$100 for my birthday and I was like oh this is the best ever you know like that's a lot of money to a 14 year old kid at least back then like my sister that's 10 now is like come on are you serious but uh yeah I got this money and then the next year I was like I hope I get something cool like I'm not expecting a hundred bucks but I'm excited and nothing came and I was like oh you know maybe maybe she doesn't have the money you know but I didn't I didn't get a

5:48card like I'd like nothing people don't forget my birthday because it's like Oh Christmas and Dakota's birthday right so that hurt but as I've as I've grown up like I've been more she's been more transparent about her struggles in her life and I obviously like I I have to respect that because she's gone through a lot but yeah like as a kid that was that was hurtful right I mean a hundred bucks is nothing but it was the gesture that like I was worth a lot to her at that point in my life you know so but honestly like growing up I had the best

6:21relationship with my half siblings I remember having some resentment towards my birth mom when I got old enough to realize that she kept her other kids and placed me for adoption but it was just a thought it was never like it never lingered it I was never bothered by it I was just like oh what the heck you know but it honestly like my perspective is so different from a I mean honestly probably 90% of adoptees because I'm just like I'm in love with adoption like I see I literally have a front row seat and like what her life turned out to be

6:51like and I love her and I would do anything to help her but I see what what my sit my half siblings have gone through and then where I am because of her I a decision to place me to be adopted and like my parents they're not like super well off but they have done like given us everything not ever was I like oh like my dad can't afford that or like you know whatever and now being old enough I talked to my parents more and I think that this is ideal in most like children parent relationships but I think it's really special because I'm adopted that I feel like extra special that my parents are start including me

7:24and like talking about their jobs and like about finances and stuff like that's really cool and I realized like dang like we didn't always have everything but like I never doubted that like they couldn't provide whatever we needed an open adoption helps adopt is in like so many different ways but I like in my situation because my adoption was so ideal like like nothing but gratitude right obviously a lot of a lot of people have different perspectives and I have to respect that because I mean a big part of your purpose is with

7:54this podcast and with your foot your organization is like to be an advocate for adoptees and for birth parents but like this sounds super rare but I'm an adopting I'm an advocate for adoptive parents like I will do everything I can to like help these people grow their family through adoption because I have seen how much it has blessed my life and I say it every time it's like on my website for my foundation adoption has been the conduit to all of my success and happiness in life like I don't want any child to be without those

8:26experiences that I had because I was adopted there are so many so many kids that are in different circumstances that could be benefited from adoption it's not just like teenage teenage expected moms or like like there's foster care kids and there's sometimes there's just children who like their parents can't take care of them adequately a big part of adoption pre-placement is that like people are always judged we can't just say oh you won't be judged like because they are like birth moms are judged hardcore and so are you know parents who can't who can't adequately take care of their children so like making that step

8:59towards like getting them the care that they need to be raised right will bring a lot of judgment so it's it's extremely difficult but like I just see the potential and it's it's even hard because my siblings have less ideal circumstances than I do but I'm just like such an advocate because even they see so I have a sister who also has an open adoption and then my younger two siblings have like semi open adoptions they have some relationships with some members of their biological family but not with their birth mom and there's no know who their birth their birth dad is like we see that like our parents gave

9:32us everything they could and it wasn't it wasn't crazy like I've never been to Disneyland and I never questioned like like all my friends they're like yeah Disneyland so cool you should go I'm like yeah we go camping you know and I never thought it was because we couldn't afford it was just like my family rocks like we don't want to go to Disneyland we want to go camping that's for sure so talking about an open adoption brings back so many different memories over the last like 24 and a half years so there's so many different experiences and like some of them I'd say like 90% of them are good but then I start talking and I

10:06was like dang I was hurt that birthday you know or I was being being an adult is way different than being a child in an open adoption because now like all of the expectations are are solely on me my parents aren't there to be like to set the boundaries or to make sure that I'm protected and it's it's probably been the hardest timeframe of me being adopted is like trying to establish healthy relationships with my biological family but it's also been one of the hugest blessings you know like I've because I at this point I'm in charge of

10:38making sure that my family knows that I love them both my family and my biological family and so I feel more joyful or like rewarded when I'm the one that reaches out and be like hey I love and care about you I hope you're doing well rather than like oh here's your can you sign your name like here's your annual Christmas card to them kind of a thing yeah I've never actually really thought about that much where you transitioning into adulthood and your your parents were who were kind of managing this relationship are now kind

11:09of out of the picture and that's that's put on you yeah it's been it's been super difficult like there's been times that so my birth mom lives really close to Salt Lake like downtown it was perfect because I got to I'm a huge like sports fanatic so I go to I go to the jazz games as often as I can and anytime that Celtics are in town like I'm I'm there I'm a huge youths fan Salt Lake is like my hub right so it's cool because I was able to establish

11:39like a hey I love you can I stay the night which is like that's a big deal for people in circumstances less than I less ideal than mine like some people are nervous to say hi to their birth parents even if they have that relationship and I'm like hey I'll be in town can I can I crash and I know that she didn't have like the most ideal circumstances sometimes she was embarrassed about like her living situation or like do I have enough space for you like my kids have friends in town or whatever I was completely fine with crashing on their broken recliner in their like carpetless living room you

12:09know like I was excited to see her but also a big a big part and I don't care she hears this because she knows like how much I love her but a big part is like setting boundaries as an adult I can see her perspective being a birth mom not being able to raise me and now all of a sudden having like free reign over like talking and seeing me as much as she wants to or can I think those opportunities where I was able to stay the night with her was so perfect because I had like an hour or two to chat with her like give her a hug and kiss and be like you rock thanks so much I'm gonna go to this sports game and

12:40then I'm gonna head out of town you know because if if she had it her way like I'd be there all weekend we'd be going out to you know and I and honestly like neither of us could afford that but like she would just pull all the strings to to kind of like make up for lost time well it sounds we'll talk more about your relationship with her later but it sounds like yeah it sounds great that you've been able to manage and balance in a really healthy way yeah it's been a super super huge blessing awesome well let's let's go back a little bit to your childhood and you talked a little bit about you know your parents read books

13:12that like were adoption books as a kid but what was what was the conversation like around adoption when you were a kid for you and your siblings man adopt adoption was probably like the first word out of my mouth like just as much as like mama daddy like you're adopted you know they were like it wasn't like a they were just terrified of it being a surprise obviously like one of the biggest negative connotations of adoption is like the rare circumstance that people find out too late and that's like that's when crap hits the fan

13:46right negative adoptive experiences are like almost always like the find out moment like oh crap I'm adopted and like nobody ever feels great about that experience and so raising your kid to like hey you're adopted like this is what happened like open stories even if an open relationship with biological family is impossible like open stories are probably the most most crucial part of a childhood and adoption is like this is like where you're from your story is no different than anybody else's in the fact that we all have stories but you

14:16are special and we'll treat you we'll treat you like that because you're a child but I've always known I was adopted and I remember times where I was like sitting with my sister I'm three years older than her and she'd be like an infant or whatever and I'd be reading those adoption books to her and it's just like guess what we're adopted you know like this is so cool your birth mom like she's gonna come see us this weekend or I don't I don't know a life without talking about adoption yeah I think our kids have had similar experiences where they'll ask friends like so who's your birth mom or their

14:47cousin their cousins like now who's your birth mom I'm like no their mom is their birth mom like it's it's the same for some people they're like what yeah you are the exception right so you feel like your parents did a pretty good job about educating and just talking about it and making it normal for you yeah no there's a billboard that I saw when I was on my mission that says you don't have to be perfect to be a perfect parent and I thought a lot about that and I was like dang my parents are perfect you know and if you ask them they will be like I am

15:17so inadequate like there are so many times that I made mistakes and like I should have done so many different things and we they've raised each of their kids so differently and you know some some in good ways and some in bad ways but like looking at parents I tell them all all the time like you guys freaking rock like being best friends with my parents in high school was like weird to some of my friends and I'm like yo they're so cool and like now like I mean I haven't talked to any of my friends that I told that but like they'd be jealous you know like being 24 and like I don't live anywhere close to my

15:50parents so my relationship with them is super super strong because I talked to at least one of them every single day and and you know they did perfect at whatever they had to do to like make sure that we knew that we are adopted and that we came from circumstances that improved our life they always just saw like the light but that didn't mean that they were negligent to like negative experiences or past trauma or something like they are always making sure that they were taking care of us and one of the biggest things is like they would

16:20just ask us to talk about how they felt and I know a lot of parents like have like specific like one-on-ones like how are you doing like what can I do like we never had that it was like we'd be fishing and be like hey like how was your week you know or or just like a dinner I'd be like you know someone be like ranting about their teacher or whatever and like they just like they always listened they cared about everything that we said and then if like action need to be made they do like privately or you know address it with like the best way that they knew how I see them still doing it because I have

16:51young siblings and it's just cool to be like it's not like you guys have finally found the light on how to be good parents you've been doing it for 24 years and it's cool my parents just they do so good and from the outside in they are not like the picture cookie-cutter perfect parents but from the inside out like I wouldn't have changed a single thing about my childhood that's awesome they sound like really really wonderful people and we I think we want to meet them so maybe we'll have them on a future episode so thinking about thinking

17:26about your parents and your siblings you mentioned a little bit that the the level of openness is a little bit different in each each circumstance which is pretty common but maybe can you share with us maybe some of the highs and lows of having different levels of openness in in relationships across your siblings absolutely and to start out I'm just gonna say that those the level of openness in any given adoption changes all the time like I mentioned like I

17:56have to set boundaries with my birth family net or my biological family now and even like growing up we had to say hey you can't you can't be talking to her right now she's going through some things or whatever so I was thinking about this question a lot today and it's probably the one that like caused me the most stupor of thought right because every good experience that I had in my adoption was followed by jealousy by one of my siblings and then that hurt me I

18:26would be like guess what my birth mom was coming to my state baseball games and that's like so cool and then I look and my siblings are playing and stuff but now that they're old enough to realize they see our relationship with our birth family and it's it sucks for us to see that they don't have that and obviously it's something that they long for and they're still really young but my brother's 16 and we joke that he's the biological one because he's the black one in our family so they say we're adopted but he's not but I know

18:57that there's been like some very deep questions that he's had within his heart that like he misses he longs for he like loves his biological family and there is very little that he knows about them so obviously like every good thing comes with like a consequence of jealousy or I'm very lucky that it was never resentment right like they like that's something that other people have reason to be very angry or like hateful about and maybe that's just large large in part

19:27because of our age differences like that they're like I'm three years older than my sister she's four years older than my brother and he's five years younger than older than his like our youngest sister so it's actually been really cool because we never had to compete with anybody we never had to and it goes boy girl boy girl so it's not like there was ever like you obviously there's the typical fighting and stuff but oh yeah we have two boys that are really close in age so we get I'm very lucky because I'm almost nine years older than my brother and my sister's ten years older than our sister so between boys and

19:58girls or between like closest siblings there was nothing outside of like normal sibling arguments but I think that one of the things that I've always wanted to do and be better is like have open conversations with my siblings about our open adoptions but it's hard for me because it's like I don't want it to seem condescending like hey this is my relationship like how do you feel about yours kind of thing because I know that it'll bring up feelings that that I have

20:29never experienced and that I don't I don't understand how they feel and they may feel that'll probably be a difficult time for them to explain their feelings to someone I feel like it'd probably be easier for them to experience or like to elaborate to my parents then like an adoptee with a I don't want to say a better story but something that's that's easier yeah and I wonder if maybe when they're older too those conversations might be a little easier to have when you're all adults but yeah I can imagine that being kind of a struggle yeah and

21:01like we all have highs and lows right so every adoption I can think of like the best moments with my birth family and my sister can think of like the best with hers and my parents can attest to experiences that my youngest siblings have because I actually have siblings so they have the same birth mom but did that neither of them know like nobody knows who the birth dad is so that kind of circumstance but they have a special bond and it is it is like its goals

21:35right for being in the circumstance that they were they they never lived together like it wasn't like we adopted them as siblings we adopted my brother and then four or five years later like the state of California called my parents and they were like hey we have his sister in in foster care in California would you be interested in like adopting her to keep them together and so it's been one of the like the best experiences of my life as an adoptee like seeing their bond with each other but also seeing that like that's not just them like obviously

22:10people have special bonds so it's so adorable to see them like being with each other because any typical 15 and 10 year old would like have mega beef right doesn't matter if the boys or girls they just be like get out of my hair I'm playing with my friends or like you know whatever but but if my sisters around my brothers like treating her like a queen and she idolizes him and what's cool is like they allow that to permeate into our relationships with other siblings so whereas we all know that they have a special bond it's never like exclusive

22:43like we were able to have that with with each other and with them as well so that's really cool that's so awesome when do you think so as a child when do you think or I guess maybe not as a child but at what point of your life did you feel like you really understood what it meant to have been adopted as far as like the logical context goes like I don't ever feel like I didn't actually understand that I came out of someone else's tummy you know yeah but like the significance of like the emotional detachment that had to come with it for

23:14my birth mom and like the the miraculous experience that my parents had finally would able to like have their own child it's it's like continuously evolving right I I had my parents on my podcast close to a year ago today and I just remember like hearing stories of like this changed our life and it was so like it was the best thing that's ever happened to us and it's just cool like I never I never heard those stories you know my dad is ten years older than my

23:45mom so it was just like just very rare but like different family dynamics that like come into play that my dad was like hey when they got married he was 30 and she was 20 or something and he was like if we want kids we gotta get going you know and and so it just like it didn't happen and and they knew that my mom had some health health issues but I don't think that they ever got the answers that they wanted they tried a lot of like low-level fertility treatments but but

24:17they weren't they weren't super well off so like IVF was questionable at the time and completely out of affordability so at the time our church had the opportunity to pursue adoptions that were affordable for an adoption right it's not like it was still still very cheap or even covered by insurance I think probably one of the best experiences I have in my life is like hearing my parents tell a story of like adopting us or whatever just cuz it like I I understand more deeply new emotions as I continue to like mature so how

24:52would you say I mean you talked a little bit about this before but how would you say your relationship with your birth family has changed over time like a lot right like it's not like you can just cut ties with your aunt and uncle because you don't like them like you can but like they're still gonna show up to reunions but being adopted like you either maintain it or you don't and if you don't you lose it like because obviously these people love and care about you but a lot of them are super self-conscious about like reaching out

25:24like my my birth grandma she only talks to me when I reach out and she freaking loves me and we've never addressed it but I'm pretty sure it's just because she's like I don't want to be pushy like she's seen that my birth mom has we've like had to set some boundaries with each other on like how much we talk and like how much I'll give to her right emotionally and with our communication so there's just a lot that goes into maintaining biological relationships

25:55there are so many different like factors that play into like a good relationship on the biological side right because my birth mom which is typically like the relationship that everybody asks about like what's your relationship with your birth mom right that's probably the most important and I love her so much but there are factors of like I really admire and look up to my younger half siblings that I don't really talk to that often and some of them I do like there's four of them and I never talked to one he's like ten and then the two

26:28oldest I talked to one of them a lot and the other one I don't talk to you like really at all but I like he's like one of my heroes he's so cool we actually look the exact same except for he's blonde and has really long hair so like all of the facial structures look the exact same but we it's just it's like someone goes and gets a crazy alias and a new identity you know but when I probably the biggest factor that comes into play with my relationship with my biological family is like a side that nobody really talks about that I wish

27:02they did because it matters so much is the day I got home from my mission I logged into my Facebook account and I have like 60 friend requests like right people that I had met on my mission they were like I'm gonna add at him so when he gets back he can add me back I didn't have social media back then on my mission and so some of them I'm like oh I I don't think I want to be friends with you on Facebook you know I'm like decline accept decline decline anyways I got a message that said like why'd you like why'd you delete my friend requests

27:32and I was like I'm sorry do I do I know you I'm not I don't remember you I've been gone for a while so like I'm sorry if if I forgot and I it just said like I'm your father and I was like mom you know like running downstairs like oh my gosh and honestly I probably took 20 minutes to scream for my mom like I was just like mind blown because in an adoption in general like people don't

28:02really talk about like birth dads or like you're like ever and most the time they don't know we're like they're not a part of the picture but but I always like assumed that my birth dad was like a bad guy because the story that I heard or at least that I thought I heard that I maybe I made up as a child to save me from some trauma was that he was not a good dude like he was anti placing me for adoption and you know I don't know how much of this is true but I this is how I feel like it went that there were like police when I was born because like

28:34they had to like he couldn't be there like there was a big deal I know that he made a big deal out of me being adopted and it ended in a very bad way with their relationship and so I like I don't think it was ever formally talked about but like I was just like I have no desire to meet my birth dad like he's a bad dude and then I was like very nervous to get to know him and so I was just asking super simple questions and he was like I know I completely understand if you don't want to talk to me but like here's a picture of my

29:04family I live in Mexico I'm translating this on the internet because I can't really speak English but I love you and he like he like wrote a letter when I was younger in English because he like he all of his English skills are very limited like reading rep talking like is he can talk better than he can read it right but he wrote a letter when I was younger saying like how much he loved me and like he would do anything for me to be happy and he just sent me a picture

29:36of it because he's like I never was able to give it to you that was so cool you know because it like people seek these things out and like most of the time they're extremely like disappointed I think my sister would feel comfortable with me saying this like this is super crazy but I was so my birth mom was with a Mexican guy when she got pregnant he was illegal and went back to Mexico after a lot of crap happened with their relationship and with me being placed

30:06for adoption she was 15 when she was pregnant and like literally the same exact situation with my sister like 15 year old girl got pregnant from a Mexican guy and crap hit the fan and they and like he left after I established this relationship with my birth dad which I'll get into just a sec my sister like sought out hers because like she had heard from her birth mom that he still lives in Utah like he has a family and she's like oh cool like Dakota's birth dad has like a family and stuff and she went there and like met a

30:36lot of people like but we don't I don't really know a lot of this story just because of how poorly her experience went but like she got scolded for a lot of stuff and hardcore judged and like a lot of stuff like was like literally was not even in her control at all you know like we were there when she was born I met both of her birth parents you know I was four but it's just like every dynamic is completely different because if you look at me and my sister like oh

31:07yeah we have the same adoption stories like you know both of our birth moms were 16 both of our birth dads are Mexican she looks white but I look more Mexican but like so many factors go into a one adoption story like just one right even though my siblings have the same birth mom like nothing about their stories are the same so going back to my birth dad like he sent me pictures sent me a picture of a letter that he had wrote when I was younger and it was just

31:37like ideal you know like I was like this is like if I cared when I was younger this is like what what I would have wanted to find you know I feel like one of my gifts as a person is like perspective I have like 30 employees with my home health agency and there's a lot of times that my colleague is like we need to fire her we need to write her up or whatever and I'm like just like put yourself in her shoes like her husband is in the hospital he just got diagnosed with diabetes would you expect her to show up to work tonight or would you want her to be there for her husband you know but I'm if I'm looking back I'm

32:11like my birth dad waited like 21 years like that's a long time that is like a whole long time and he wasn't abrasive like he was just like hey if you're ready like I'm here here's your siblings like I love you and if I never hear from you again like I hope you're happy so I love him a lot so you connected with him when you were 21 that's been three years so can you tell us just a little bit

32:44about how relationship has developed in that time it's hard you know and there's been I've had dreams that like I got to meet them and stuff and so I keep postponing this like inner intuition that I should learn Spanish and I was like screw it this is my year so I'm all about making goals and like self-improvement and leadership and stuff so I like what I mean I know a lot

33:14of people that love goals and self-improvement don't like New Year's because they think it's just an excuse to do it once a year but I'm like New Year's rocks like if it's an excuse to get anybody to make goals like let them do it I was like this is my year to learn Spanish and it is not going as well as I thought it but I've got a streak on Duolingo that's like half of a year long now so I feel accomplished even though like I went to the Mexican restaurant a couple weeks ago and I got through most of it and then he was like

33:44yeah something about the dish like how I want my meat cooked and I was like oh crap man like I don't know how to say that wasn't on Duolingo yet anyways so it's it's been a lot a lot of like nothing honestly like he missed oh my gosh this is I shouldn't say it's been a lot of nothing we don't communicate a whole lot but when I had my podcast about adoption we had weekly live shows

34:15that were posted on all of our social medias and we would get like like nobody would ever really watch live we would just get like a lot of views and shares and stuff but my mom would text me like every week and she'd be like Juan watched it like every one of my podcasts like my birth dad watched and he liked them all and he would like send me messages he's like I'm so proud of you which number one is like huge because he's my birth dad but number two like from the only thing I knew about him about being anti-adoption and now he's like you're amazing you know because I'm out here

34:49supporting adoption but one of the coolest things is like him and my mom have sparked a really cool relationship like they don't talk but like any mom she posts pictures of them with her kids and he's always just like beautiful family and like miss you guys or like thanks for raising such an incredible children and stuff and that's like a dream come true for adoptive parents who are almost always scared of like reunification especially for like after so much time right yeah I'm very lucky like I try to be an advocate for

35:20adoption but it's just so hard because I feel like I can't compare my story to anybody's because it's so ideal you know like I try to be like hey this is the best thing ever and I'm like yeah but you're the exception like nobody else has a story as good as yours so thinking about openness do you think it's possible to be too open I think the only opportunity for adoptions to be too open is like when like neglect is a factor and feelings aren't listened to because I

35:55know of people not in my circumstances I know of people who are in relationships that they don't want to be in right like they don't feel comfortable around their birth mom or somebody but their parents push that because they're like open adoptions are like the best thing ever right everybody pushes them yeah I feel like open adoptions should be the the default or like the norm right and then you have to measure like toxicity and how like mental health is going

36:29because I don't struggle with that stuff but I know that adoptees are much more likely to struggle with anxiety depression like feeling abandoned stuff like that so like have those conversations with your kids whether they're formal or not like hey do you want to see your birth mom this weekend if they say no then you got to respect that you know obviously for different reasons if they just like no I want to hang out with Jerry instead like um we're gonna go see your birth mom Jerry will be there next week yeah for sure

36:59but if it's like mom please don't make me do that kind of a thing like I've seen that in my life and that's when it's I wouldn't say it's too open it's just like you have to you have to keep those relationships sacred or they're gonna be ruined so fast because you have to I'm gonna step out and tell a story when I was growing up like you know every first day in class they're like tell us an interesting fact about you you know and I'm always like I was adopted and people are like that's not interesting or like you know you know

37:32and I was always like kind of about her I'm like that's freaking interesting you know like you guys aren't adopted um but looking back like they they took it face value like I was no different than any of them and I feel like that's the way I should have been treated like obviously I wanted to be treated special but I'm like you know I'm adopted and he doesn't have a leg like people have different stories just because mine started when I was born doesn't mean that it's any different or it's different any more significant than

38:02anybody else's yeah so like looking back I have friends that are adopted and friends who have adopted now that I'm old enough to have friends that are like in that stage of having children and stuff you gotta pay attention to how you feel as well like I know that some people are like yeah we're gonna go see our kids birth moms like we're not very excited about it but it's the thing to do you know sometimes that's a good thing and sometimes it's a bad thing

38:32right like if you really have your children's like best interest at heart you'll know whether that's a relationship you should pursue or to like put on pause and like those kids are gonna grow up like being adopted isn't like just a children thing like if they don't have a great relationship with their great aunt or whatever then they could they have the opportunity to nurture that when they're older if they want to and I feel like in this

39:02circumstance it can be extremely closely related to like any relationship in a family like if you don't want to see someone you don't have to see them if you don't want to have a good relationship with them then you don't have to and especially if you don't feel like it benefits you mentally or emotionally like if you're constantly stressed and struggling and like I don't want to see them like it'll cause PTSD or whatever it's no different than if it was like your Aunt Bessie you know like don't go see them if both parties

39:32agree to like hey it's probably best that we don't do that this weekend or something so it can be super casual because a lot of people a lot of times they are most I'd say like 90% of open adoptions aren't always like hey we're gonna go meet your birth mom like this is a first-time thing right it's like hey she's in town you want to go get lunch like that's how it happens like every time my sister's birth mom lives like 20 minutes away from her now and she's having a baby and they're like hey you want to get lunch or hey like I'm gonna stop by and drop off some cookies or something you know it's it's not like

40:02it's not a crazy relationship yeah it's just built different and I think I think that's really good advice for all members of the adoption triad to just consider the type of relationship you have what are the benefits how is it helping or not helping you grow closer to each other and and kind of make those assessments I think that's awesome yeah there's like I feel like there's a there's a huge like self reflection question you need to ask yourself like

40:35why are you pursuing this relationship like is it to check off the box because if that's the only benefit that comes out from seeing them this weekend or allowing them to stay over or like doing a big trip together then don't do it because it's not gonna benefit right like in that sense it is different than a biological family because you have to like be sensitive like allow the children or the adopted children to like pursue those avenues and that relationship because it's not gonna be it's not gonna be there naturally it's

41:06not like you just hang out with your cousins every weekend you know like this is they are different and so if if you ask yourself that and you see like what what am I looking for in this relationship for my child and honestly like if you're if their birth mom is in a place that they should not be seeing their kid like that's okay not to plan that trip my my siblings know that like they they don't have any sort of relationship with their birth mom and as much as it hurts they're completely understanding of it right they don't

41:39they don't want a toxic relationship is not better than no relationship what do you wish people understood about adoption maybe those that are new to adoption or are you know just learning more about it right now what do you wish that people understood it depends why they're trying to understand adoption if they're looking into like adopting a child or like growing their family through adoption then there's a there's a lot they need to understand right it's not just like hey fill out the paperwork do you have them the other finances to

42:10make this available if not like here's here's application for like a personal loan like that doesn't suffice like I don't care honestly as an adoptee and this is going against the grain of every other adoptee that has a platform that cares about being an adoptee I don't care why you adopt a child as long as it's the right reason like if it's because of infertility or because you just want more kids like if you're capable of having a healthy relationship with them and do it like a lot of people are like you're just adopting because you have infertility like experiencing infertility like I don't care like if

42:42they want to adopt a child let them do that now a big part of what my foundation is pushing towards is providing a non-biased education system for adoptive parents and a support group so stay tuned but but obviously every every avenue of like why why are people wanting to care about adoption based on is based on their perspective like if it's my friend that I'm like yeah I'm adopted he's like yeah like loser like nobody wanted you you know like yeah

43:16right my parents paid paid me for me cash you know like you had your parents just like be like bill the insurance you know like whatever like I was chosen like I like there's always those kind of usually kids right but number one it's not worth fighting those people like I know you didn't tell my buddy why I was adopted but I think that it's something that needs to be included I mean there's a lot of things that children are are having to learn these days that I didn't

43:48and like you know many different political agendas and things that are happening around the world that kids need to be informed on and I feel like so last year was the first time that two parent households have gone up in the world in like 60 years which is freaking sweet you know but with all that is being included in the education system like why are we not talking about families and why are we not talking about like foster care and it doesn't

44:18even need to be adoption like these children that are in less than ideal situations are like being put into a like a one-size-fits-all with like the kids who have perfect parents and the kids with two parents are being put in less than ideal situations in communities that are typically like single-parent homes or you know sometimes no parent homes that's like a lifelong battle and something that I can't I can't change but if parents around the world collectively can talk about like some kids are adopted like

44:51big whoop like you love them but they are not different from you like they're not not wanted and usually that's because they're like loved extra you know like yeah there's my soapbox I have I have all these big big hairy audacious goals with education and not like education in general but like educating the public on like the good the good that comes from building a healthy family and adoption and stuff so yeah yeah we're we're a hand in hand

45:24with you in that that awesome goal how do you feel like family members or friends can better support adoptees I don't want to exclude adoptees that have different stories than than mine which are the majority but thinking outside of like because obviously my parents like didn't like they pulled Billy pulled out all the strings and like making sure we were like love taking care of treated no differently it's not like we were never disciplined because we were adopted you

45:55know like everybody like has strains on different relationships like I feel like I had to fight to get along with my cousins the same that my cousins who were biologically related had to fight to get along with each other like obviously so because my parents well my mom wasn't but my dad was a little older when he got married and they got me he had really really good relationships with like his nieces and nephews right like they were like uncle Doug rocks like all of the stuff and then I come into the picture and like those kids get

46:26dispersed right and so this cousin that I've like idolized my whole life I've never had a good relationship with him because it just started really young and and because as we grew up like he was not significantly older but like five or six years like to the point where he was like way cooler than me you know but we had all the same interests and like I would just sit outside we grew up in a really small farm town so I just like sit outside watching him play basketball like on the farm like dirt dirt dirt road like the hoop is on a barn kind of

46:58thing and he'd be like dude go away and I'm like you're so cool you know but like none of my family ever treated me like differently because I was adopted it was just cool that like they were so stoked that Doug and Marcy finally got a kid like they've been trying forever and so like I was I was like a little miracle child kind of thing like I don't feel like I was treated differently I was just like everybody loved me and I mean it's all about character you know and a lot of adoptees struggle with finding who they are because of like the

47:30way they were raised and that's something that I'm I'm trying really hard to to understand is because like I like love my roots a lot of people like are super surprised when they hear that I like love to sing country music because they're like you seem like a city boy to me but then like the people that like see me at work and they like I don't know it's just like people don't have these weird expect or they do have these weird expectations about me like I'm a

48:00city boy I'm a country boy like I can like both you know I can listen to rap and country and I can I can love to go shopping or like travel the world and still like enjoy you like porch picking and like eating apple pie kind of thing so I see where a lot of people struggle with like finding out who they are in circumstances where their parents are like I don't even know who you are you know and that's in normal relationships it's not just like adopted kids but

48:31adopted kids have like the butt end of the deal where they're like I don't really know my genes I don't know what like what hobbies like most my family my birth family has but I think that like now that I'm talking about it that's probably like the the best thing about my parents in the entire world is like my dad was like a freaking amazing wrestler like everybody talks about like how good he was at wrestling and growing up he's like you want to wrestle this year I'm like I'm playing basketball you know and I know that he like always wanted that wrestler kid and he like not once did I ever feel guilty for not

49:03wrestling and not once did I ever feel ashamed because I like to like rap when I was in high school and that is not my dad you know my dad is like a let's go hunting fishing like sit on the porch let's build garden boxes let's go more people's yards and I'm like you know being like this this yuppie kind of like growing up and it's like not what my parents expected but looking back and and even like looking right now like how they're treating my siblings that are

49:33still around them like they loved and supported whatever the heck we wanted to do as long as it was like appropriate obviously liking rap music as a teenager is not a parent's dream and singing it in the minivan and on our way to like vacation and I get scolded the crap out of I'm like yeah probably should have been smarter about the lyrics I was saying out loud you know but I didn't know what they meant but that doesn't mean he's like you're grounded like you can't listen to music he was just like you need to like know what you're what

50:04you're listening to kind of a thing and he's like and if that's that's what you like then do it appropriately kind of stuff so I'll toot my parents horn all day because they are like perfect parents and I think that the main thing was like they let me grow up and be whatever I wanted to be how do I say this I have become more ambitious for my britches than they think I can be they're like you you dream too much like you want to do too much stuff especially coming from like my parents who are like grew up on my farms you know like being

50:35anything outside of like a farm boy is like what you know and just just where I'm at today is like so cool to be like it like my parents freaking love what I do and it's nothing that they ever I don't think they ever even had expectations for what I was gonna do which was really cool because they're like we can't wait to see you like be a doctor or a lawyer like one of my dad might get a little emotional about this but my dad's like greatest regret in life was like dropping out of college and he suffered for it for like 30 years

51:08working in the prison system and not once does he come home with like a with an angry face wit or like he's never hard or harsh at home and you have to be hard and harsh at work to be in that environment but something that's cool is like I've met some of his colleagues and like Doug is the nicest guy ever like like we don't deserve him like we don't know why he works here and I know that he doesn't like his job but he shows up and people think that he's he loves his job so like the only expectation that was put on me is like do better than

51:43that you know and it wasn't it wasn't if I went to college it was like do what you want to do and do it as good as you can and so when I came home and told him like I want to be a healthcare administrator I want to be a CEO of a hospital they're like dope like what can we do to help you and I was like well I'm in college and they were like well like here's the application for student loans you know like I didn't receive a dime from them I remember one time in my entire college career that I got something from them it was because I was

52:16broke as heck and I couldn't make it back to college so he filled my gas tank and that was it like I never I never got a dollar and so obviously those those people I'm including myself in that phrase like work freaking hard because like I'm not gonna get any handouts I can't just be like mom dad like I'm screwed they'd be like we love you like do you need advice you know we're full of that yeah so um obviously it was a difficult conversation because it would

52:48be with anybody but like when I approached them and I was like mom I want to change the world like I don't want to be a hospital CEO I want I want to start a foundation that like is in every nation and I want to like I could feel confident telling them like I want to like be the president of the United States obviously like it's hard to tell anybody that cuz they'll be like wait are you serious you know but like they'd be like okay like I never doubted you for a second like like what can we do to help to close that like don't treat us

53:19differently like respect our experiences because they are very valid like there's a lot of things that adoptees have gone through my siblings included that I will never understand like me I will never feel abandoned and I feel like I didn't experience trauma which 99% of adoptees will have some sort of feelings in their lifetime but what I have felt is like extremely valid even though it's the exception and I was never treated any differently than any kid off the street

53:51or any kid in this in the seat at the library you know yeah our experiences are special and they're unique it's not like being adopted is super common but it's not rare and all I expect for the public is to treat us no differently than anybody else love it and I think that's one of the huge reasons why we're trying to do what we're doing you guys rock not as much as you well is there

54:24anything else that you'd like to say about adoption or any of the last thoughts that you'd like to share before you wrap up nothing is better than people like valuing your thoughts especially from a perspective or like a dynamic that people feel like they don't belong like a lot of adoptees struggle with like people don't value me here or people didn't value me there and that's probably more common but me kind of like hey I want to share all that I can about

54:54adoption like that means a lot to me because I know that like people someone wants to hear it or someone cares and a lot of it is like hey my parents have given me everything I could have dreamed of like as far as like being set up for success like I wasn't I wasn't gifted a trust I wasn't given even free education like they taught me work ethics and they taught me how to like build healthy relationships and I think that was probably one of the greatest

55:26things that they could have done for me is like they showed me how to manage healthy relationships by the way that they treated my adoption which is really cool and honestly most parents won't even get credit for that because it's kind of like a like now that I'm talking about it I'm like dang like I've learned so much from my parents and I know that they didn't even try to teach me that you know they were just like doing their best to like hey I think we should reach out to Dakota's birth mom and like send pictures or whatever but me growing up I'm like they value relationships and that's something that's incredibly

55:56important to me is like reaching out to people that care so I mean I have people that I met all throughout my life I'm like hey I want to like kind of reach out to them and they're like oh my gosh like who are you and I'm like you changed my life you know or people I met like on my mission or in college but to toot my parents horn I say that a lot because they're they are perfect they taught me how to have healthy boundaries and build solid relationships they taught me how to have good morals like being able to make healthy decisions that

56:31benefit me and those around me and also understanding consequences of of the good and the bad decisions that we make and then just like treating people with respect and and obviously work ethic because my parents they had to try really hard at everything they did to be sufficient and because of that work ethic I'm like dang they weren't they were far superior to being sufficient parents well Dakota thanks so much for being on this episode we've really appreciated you and how just open and candid you are about your story and I

57:05think we have a lot of really good takeaways that our listeners are going to appreciate so thank you very very much and I'm honored thanks for letting me share my story thank you so much for listening to this episode of the open adoption project it was wonderful to hear from Dakota he had so much great stuff to share and we hope that you really enjoyed it thank you for listening and if you have a chance go

57:35ahead and give us a review on Apple podcasts or as always you can reach out to us on email at open adoption project at gmail.com thanks so much for listening

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